rye extract and other mixtures, such as grain alcohol and glycerin. Harry Limparis used to mix it for West and he can tell all about it. When it was issued to wards it was labeled "spirits fermenti." I have seen it several times.

Mr. FORD. I swore to that and I will state it anywhere; I have seen that.

I have seen Harry Limparis mix this up from a recipe he had in a large book in the pharmacy, and my reason for making the statement is because Harry Limparis told me in making this solution it was to replace the whisky that was supposed to be issued to the patients. Whether that is true or not I am not here to swear whether it is true, but I know it was placed in bottles labeled "spirits fermenti" and afterward it was placed in a bottle marked "tonascine solution."

Senator BUSHFIELD. And this was given to patients in the hos pital?

Mr. FORD. It was placed in bottles and issued to the wards. Senator BUSHFIELD. What was done with it in the wards? Do you know?

Mr. FORD. I can't say what was done with it on the wards, but being marked or labeled "spirits fermenti" any one would imagine it was given to the patients in place of whisky.

Senator BUSHFIELD. You served as orderly out there?

Mr. FORD. Yes, but I don't issue medicine.

Senator BUSHFIELD. But you have contacts with the patients?

Mr. FORD. If they are ordered whisky and they are given this solution and it was supposed to be whisky

Senator BUSHFIELD. This solution, or whatever it was, prepared by West, was handled by you in giving it to the patients?

Mr. FORD. No, it was not. I have no way to handle the drugs there at all.

Senator BUSHFIELD. I notice in your affidavit you state:

One Sunday about 9 or 10 a. m. on or about July 14, 1942, I was on duty and I saw Lawrence Tucker come out of the store room carrying a 5-gallon can. I stopped and talked to Tucker and the can smelled of gasoline, and he carried it like it was full.

Mr. James R. Gardner, who was superintendent of the supply department at that time, was in the store room. Tucker took the can of gasoline to the laundry. I have seen prisoners who work in the laundry carry 5-gallon cans to Mr. Files' automobile and put them in there. I have also seen Mr. Eicke drive his personal automobile up to the hospital gasoline tank several times and put gasoline in his personal automobile, when he was superintendent of the supply department, even after he had resigned and was in the uniform of the United States Army.

Of course this 5-gallon can of gasoline that you say smelled like gasoline, that you saw Tucker taking to the laundry, might have been used in the laundry for something?

Mr. FORD. I have no way of telling what happened to the can after he carried it inside.

I can't say whether that can was placed in Mr. Files' car or not. 1 saw Tucker with it; he walked into the laundry with it. Whether they used it to clean machinery or not, I don't know.

Senator BUSHFIELD. Files occupied what position out there?
Mr. FORD. Superintendent of the laundry.

Senator BUSHFIELD. He is not there any longer, is he?

Mr. FORD. He is still there.

Senator BUSHFIELD. He is?

Mr. FORD. To my knowledge he is, yes.

Senator BUSHFIELD. Any questions, Senator?

Senator BUCK. How long did you say you have been out there?
Mr. FORD. I have been there since June 26, 1931.

Senator BUCK. Who engaged you?

Mr. FORD. Well, I was contacted through the personnel office and I was referred to the superintendent of nurses, who also has charge of the orderlies in the hospital.

Senator BUCK. Who is that person?

Mr. FORD. Miss Katherine E. Moran, now superintendent of nurses, or she was then.

Senator BUCK. That is all.

Senator BUSHFIELD. That is all.

I suggest that we adjourn until 1 o'clock.

(Whereupon, at 12 o'clock noon, a recess was taken until 1 o'clock p. m., this same day.)

AFTERNOON SESSION

Senator BUCK. This meeting will come to order and we will resume the hearings of this subcommittee.

Senator Bushfield, may I let you call the next witness?
Senator BUSHFIELD. Mr. McPeak, take the stand please.

STATEMENT OF THOMAS W. McPEAK-Resumed

Senator BUSHFIELD. How many years did

in and around the hospital, Mr. McPeak?

you say that you had been

Mr. McPEAK. Well, I do not know, exactly.

Senator BUSHFIELD. Along about 1933 or 1934, was it not?
Mr. McPEAK. Well up to the present time.
Senator BUSHFIELD. Are you there now, did

you say?

Mr. McPEAK. I have not been there for 3 years.

Senator BUSHFIELD. All right. While you were there, Mr. McPeak-

Mr. McPEAK. Now, I will say 3 years; I think it is about 3 years. Senator BUSHFIELD. That does not matter. Did you engage in making loans to the employees?

Mr. MCPEAK. I loaned some of the boys some money, at times. Senator BUSHFIELD. Did you make a business of it?

Mr. MCPEAK. No; not a particular business of it; no, sir.

Senator BUSHFIELD. What did you mean by a "particular business"? Mr. McPEAK. If a fellow came to me and was in a tight spot, I would loan it to him.

Senator BUSHFIELD. You were known about the hospital and among the employees as a fellow from whom they could get a loan?

Mr. McPEAK. That is right.

Senator BUSHFIELD. Did you take a promissory note for those loans? Mr. MCPEAK. A promissory note-I will give you an illustration of it. You can judge for yourself. A man came to me and he said if I will loan him $5 and he will give so much back, and if I thought the man was all right, I did and if I did not, I did not. That is all of it. If he wanted $10 and I thought that he was all right.

91033-43- 3

Senator BUSHFIELD. Did he give you a note for this money?

Mr. McPEAK. Just an agreement to pay me that money back on pay day, that is all.

Senator BUSHFIELD. Well, I notice in the report of the Comptroller General here, it is stated that you were known among the employees as a loan shark.

Mr. McPEAK. There was never anybody in my presence or otherwise applied that to me that I ever heard it.

Senator BUSHFIELD. You are also charged with having charged interest on these loans at the rate of 25 percent. One employee claims to have paid you a total of $120 on a $50 loan.

Mr. McPEAK. Whoever told you that lied.

Senator BUSHFIELD. I am just quoting from the Comptroller General's report, Mr. McPeak.

Mr. McPEAK. Of course, I do not know who said that but if he did I can give you a good reason for him saying that.

Senator BUSHFIELD. It is not true, though?

Mr. McPEAK. There are fellows out there that cannot borrow money from me because their word is not worth a dime and they will tell you anything.

Senator BUSHFIELD. Another employee stated that when he failed to make a payment he owed you, McPeak took the matter to Dr. Bocock and he was called to Dr. Bocock's office and by him ordered to pay

it.

Mr. MCPEAK. That is not so, not to my knowledge, and I think I would know it if it was done.

Senator BUSHFIELD. You would know it if it was done?

Mr. McPEAK. Yes, sir.

Senator BUSHFIELD. Did you ever go to Dr. Bocock about any of these loans of yours?

Mr. MCPEAK. No, sir.

Senator BUSHFIELD. Did you ever complain to him when employees did not pay on time?

Mr. McPEAK. No, sir. If I took a loss I took it and I said nothing about it.

Senator BUSHFIELD. That is all.

Have you any questions?

Senator BUCK. I would like to ask you, when you were engaged by W. P. A. as a foreman, as I understand.

Mr. MCPEAK. That is right.

Senator BUCK. I presume that you took the job because you were just interested in being occupied.

Mr. McPEAK. As much as anything else.

Senator BUCK. You did not need the money.

Mr. McPEAK. Yes; I needed some money.

Senator BUCK. Not very much, because you had money to loan.

Mr. McPEAK. I had some money, but you know—

Senator BUCK. You were not a case

Mr. McPEAK. I was not starving to death.

Senator BUCK. If W. P. A. had not been around

Mr. MCPEAK. I was working for the District at that time.

Senator BUSHFIELD. One further question or two, Mr. McPeak: Have you any record or recollection of the total amount of these loans that you made?

Mr. McPEAK. No.

Senator BUSHFIELD. You have no memorandum book of that?

Mr. MCPEAK. No, sir.

Senator BUSHFIELD. Could you make a guess on it?

Mr. McPEAK. No; I would not try to guess.

Senator BUSHFIELD. Was there a considerable sum as a total?

Mr. McPEAK. Not a great deal.

Senator BUSHFIELD. As much as a thousand dollars?

Mr. McPEAK. Oh, no; not a fourth of it.

Senator BUSHFIELD. That is all.

Mr. McPEAK. I want to make a statement on my own, and this is a fact: Dr. Bocock, as far as he is concerned, never had anything to do with it in any way, shape, or form, with what I was doing, and that is a fact. He was not interested. So far as I know, except what he would hear, he would know nothing about it.

Senator Buck. That is all unless you have something more to add. Senator BUSHFIELD. Just so that you will know what the record says, I will quote it:

This is in connection with this employee's statement that you went to Dr. Bocock when he failed to make a payment, and it concludes:

It would therefore appear that Dr. Bocock had full knowledge and approved of such illegal practices on Government property under his supervision.

Mr. McPEAK. Then he told a lie.

Senator BUSHFIELD. Thank you.

Mr. McPEAK. I do not know whether it is illegal or not, supposing we make a little agreement like that, if I come to you and say, Senator, I need $10, I will give you $5 or I will give you $10 or $15 for it, and you let me have the money; is there anything illegal about that? Would you consider it so?

Senator BUSHFIELD. It might be if it violated the usury laws.
Mr. McPEAK. Thank you, gentlemen.

(Witness excused.)

Senator BUSHFIELD. We will call Mr. Mangrum now. Have you been sworn?

Mr. MANGRUM. I was sworn this morning.

STATEMENT OF WALTER S. MANGRUM

Senator BUSHFIELD. Give your name and occupation.

Mr. MANGRUM. Walter S. Mangrum, 1459 Florida Avenue NW.; occupation, storekeeper.

Senator BUSHFIELD. Where is your store located?

Mr. MANGRUM. I am storekeeper at Gallinger Hospital.

Senator BUSHFIELD. I thought a man named Garden was storekeeper. Mr. MANGRUM. He is supply man.

Senator BUSHFIELD. What does your job consist of?

Mr. MANGRUM. My job consists of issuing stock, noting down stock to be ordered by Mr. Garden, incoming stock, looking after all expendable property, unexpendable property, setting up the new wards, keeping track of furniture, food, medicines, and everything that is contained in the hospital.

Senator BUSIFIELD. All of the property of the hospital is under your jurisdiction?

Mr. MANGRUM. Mr. Garden's and my jurisdiction.

Senator BUSHFIELD. How long have you served there?

Mr. MANGRUM. I have served there 1 year as a property clerk and storekeeper. I have been at Gallinger Hospital since 1931 as orderly. Senator BUSHFIELD. I do not have any notes on you, Mr. Mangrum. Will you tell us what you want to testify about?

I had this letter

Mr. MANGRUM. I do not know, you sent for me. to come here, sir. I have never testified to anything. Senator BUSHFIELD. While Senator Buck is looking for your name, we will consider Kenneth Orr.

STATEMENT OF KENNETH ORR

Senator BUSHFIELD. Give your name and occupation.

Mr. ORR. My name is Kenneth Orr, and I now drive a bus for Capital Transit but I worked in the offices as orderly at Gallinger for 11 years, up to February of this year.

Senator BUSHFIELD. You are not now connected with the hospital? Mr. ORR. No, sir.

Senator BUSHFIELD. I notice that you have made two or three affidavits, Mr. Orr, in connection with certain incidents at the hospital. Mr. ORR. That is right.

Senator BUSHFIELD. One of them refers to Mr. Kuhn, who testified this morning. Do you know anything about the incident in which he was charged with having storm windows and screens made at the hospital for use in his home?

Mr. ORR. Just like I told him, I do not know of anything-the investigator asked me-except I heard about it in ordinary conversation. Senator BUSHFIELD. What was the investigator's name?

Mr. ORR. Two of them. Mr. Evans was one and the other was Hill. Senator BUSHFIELD. You have no personal knowledge of that? Mr. ORR. No; except hearsay. They asked me about it, so I told them what I had heard.

Senator BUSHFIELD. Not what you heard, but from whom did you hear it?

Mr. ORR. If I am not mistaken it was the carpenter, Mr. Hitaffer, and of course

Senator BUSHFIELD. How do you spell that name?

Mr. ORR (spelling). H-i-t-a-f-f-e-r.

Senator BUSHFIELD. Is he working at the hospital now?

Mr. ORR. I do not know. He was there when I left there in January or February.

Senator BUSHFIELD. Mr. Orr, you made an affidavit on November 18, 1942, in which you made this statement:

I have been given packages by Dr. West which contained liquids and powders and other things which I did not see, with instructions to take to West's automobile, and I did place them in his automobile, also other packages of similar supplies to take to Dr. Bocock's office, which I did. The amount I took to Dr. Bocock's office would be too much for his own use in his home here and it is my belief that it was taken to Dr. Bocock's farm. Since I have been working here I have seen at least 12 different employees who work on Bocock's farm in Virginia come in here for treatment or hospitalization. Two were women who had their babies here, at the hospital, one white and one colored, others for treatment of various kinds. Some stayed a week or more. I have heard that the Public Health officials learned of this and made Dr. Bocock stop it.