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deration thereof to this house; re- ter, going into a committee of fup. lying on the experienced zeal and ply, were again addressed upon the affection of his faithful commons for subject by lord John Carendith. He such aid towards making that esta- conceived that the commons must blishment as fhall appear consistent teel a very lively sentiment of afwith a due attention to the circun- fection to his majesty for the graci. stances of his people, every addition ous manner in which he had reto whole burthens his majesty feels folved to provide for the prince of with the most sensible concern. Wales, without calling upon the

G. R." people for


addition to the civil

lift. He was pleated to take upon To Mr. Powis it appeared, that himself the whole of the annual this mellage contained fome express expence; and to allow the fum of fions which he could not easily com- fifty thousand pounds a year to his prehend. It was a matter of furprize royal bighness. The house, howto him, that a separate establishment ever, could not be ignorant of the fhould be desired for the Prince of state of the civil list. There had Waics, and recommended to the been set aside nearly 50,000l. toconfideration of the house. For he wards the exiinction of debts ; a cirwell remembered that the noble lord cumstance which for about six years in the blue ribband, when he asked to come, would reduce the civil list for the last augmentation of the civil to 850,0001. a year. Now the allowlift, pledged himself to them that no ance of 50,cocl. a year to the prince parliamentary aid thould be fought would reduce it ftill more, and leave to support the household of the to his majelly a revenue that was prince. He begged, therefore, to hardly fufficient to discharge the be inforined by ministers what their different claims upon it. intentions were.

In a ficvation like this it was by Lord John Cavendish affuired the no means wonderful, that his mahonourable member, that there was jesty thould have occafion for a tema nothing improper in the intentions porary aid to equip his son upon his of the miniitry. To increase the entering into public life; and he annual burdens of the subject under was convinced that there was no the present circumitances of the member of the house who could he country was impolitic and inexpedi- so abfurd as to oppose himself to the ent. No vote of the house would ease and convenience of the royal therefore be called for by way of an- family. The house of the prince nual provision for the prince of Wales, had not been inhabited for many Ji was thought that a sum for this years; and repairs would be necespurpose might be taken out of the fary to make it comfortable. Of so present revenue of his majesty. But young a man as the prince, it could as, at the first setting oft, a new es- not be expected that he had habits tablithment was necessarily artended of couony; and it could not porwith expence; and as the finances fibly accord with the difpotition of of his majesty were not now in the the houfe to throw him'inco emfullest and happiest situation : it was barrassment and difquier in his preintended that an adequate sum for fent critical fituation. He concluded this end should be voted.

by moving, that the sum of fixty This speech gave a general fatis- thoufand pounds be granted to his faction; and the house, two days af- majefty, towards enabliog his ma


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jelty to make a separate establishment the children of the duke of Glou. for his royal highness the prince of celier. At that period too the eduWales

cation of the prince of Wales had
Mr. Pitt bestowed his approbation, begun to be expensive. He had
upon the motion ; but adverting to been charged with expressions which
a tpeech attributed to lord North he had never used. What he had
when the augmentation of one hun.' faid at the time alluded to, was ex• .
dred thousand pounds was made to pressly this : “ During the present
the civil lift, he censured his lordship itate of the royal family, that house
for having pledged himself to the would not be called upon


house, that no farther addition to ië listance to the ettablishıment of the
should be required. The engage prince of Wales.”. By the present
ment of the noble lord had been itate of the royal family, there was
very folemn; and he had not scru- implied with regard to the prince of
pled to infringe it. With reípect Wales, the period while he thould
to the prince of Wales, it was im. live with his father under his go-
poffible chat che house could testify vernor and preceptors. He could
their affection to him in a manner not possibly aliude to the period when
100 marked and decisive. He was he should leave the house of his fa.
happy to find, that some rumours ther, and when a separate eltablish-
which had gone abroad were unreal ment would be necessary. There
and delusive. These rumours had was neither wit nor argument in
fated it as the intention of minifters miîinterpreting his words; and the
to obstruct the avowed desire of his having recourse to such petty shifts
majesty, and in defiance of the cire was an evidence of frivolity or bara
cumstances of the country, to have renness.
demanded a most enormous sum for Mr. Fox confirmed what had fal.
the establishment of the prince of len from lord North ; and contend-

As, however, a very fe- ed that the expreffions employed by rious alarm had been given by such him were exactly as his lord'hip had reports, he hoped that the servants represented them. With regard to of the crown would rise up and de. the fums granted to former princes clare that there never had been any of Wales, he argued that they were foundation for them. He observed high; and that the establishment for at the same time, that the nation the present prince of Wales was so bad been brought forward in a man- much inferior to them, that its disper too disrespectful to the prince of proportion could not but strike him Wales. For that a matter fo im- very sensibly. His royal highness portant ought to bave been proposed deserved more, both on account of much earlier in the session.

his illustrious rank, and of his va. Lord North affirmed, that when rious and shining virtues. If it had the augmentation of one hundred remained with him to have advised thousand pounds were made to the an establishment, he would '

most afcivil list, no propofition relative to suredly have proposed a fum more the establillment of the prince of adequate to the object in view. The Wales was thought of. It was con- person, however, the most proper to ferred in confideration of the in- decide in the business, had been of crease of the royal family, and to an opinion very different; and it was enable his majesty to provide for his duty to submit. To censure the the younger branches of it, and ministry for being late in bringing



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forward the transaction, was to give of the country. This was an evil way to indiscretion. For obstruc- which called loudly for a redress. tion had been thrown industriously Places of this description ought to be into their way. Nor indeed could reduced to a fixed and limited stand. it escape observation, that the last ard. With regard to finecures of adminiftration ought themselves to enormous size, they ought not to be have acted in the matter. He en- suffered to remain ; and individuals treated that no party division, and ought not to riot in inordinate no political faction should in the wealth to the prejudice of the present case interrupt the unanimity public. which ought to prevail among them. Thc peace emoluments of the Both sides of the house should cor- auditor of the Exchequer were updially concur in the manifestation to wards of 7000l. a year. It was his majesty and the prince of Wales of proposed to reduce them to 40ool. the affection they bore to them, and Nor was this an incompetent income of th zeal they felt in promoting to reward an able minister of the their cafe, happiness and comfort. crown. A salary of ioool. was in

The question upon being put, was tended for the deputy auditor. The carried unanimoufly. In the house of profits of the clerk of the pells durPeers, a message from the king fimi- ing peace were 3300l. a year. lar to that to the commons, on the sub. These might be reduced to 3000l. ject of the establishment of the prince of the tellers of the exchequer the of Wales, was presented by the duke peace emoluments are upwards of of Portland. In this busines the two 2500l. but in war they are infinite. houses concurred ; and there was no ly greater. He was therefore in. disserting voice to the desire of af- clined to state their falary at 2700l. lifting his majesty in fulfilling his making a small fuperaddition to their purpose of creating a separate house. peace income as a compensation for hold for the prince.

taking away the enormous amount It was now proposed by lord John of their profits during a war. Of Cavendish, that new regulations their deputies he would state the fa. Mould be introduced into the exche- laries at 1000l. a year. Other, and quer, and he brought in a bill for similar regulations were also neces. that purpose. It had appeared from fary. He farther observed, that if the reports of the commissioners of there Ajould be any loss upon carryaccounts, that the abolition of cer- ing the bill into effect, his intention tain places in that office would be a was to charge one third of it to the wise regulation. These places had civil lift, and two-thirds of it to the grown to be useless; and were yet public. But if there should be a a source of great expence to the profit which was infinitely more public. He accounted the cham- probable, he thought it right to diberlain and uther of the exchequer to vide it in the same proportion. be two of the offices which ought to Mr. Pulteney declared, that he be abolished; but it was not his mean- could discover no good reason for aling to difpofless the present poffef- lowing the tellers more than the fors. With regard to other offices amount of their peace emoluments. which it might be proper to to retain, Their places were nearly absolute fiit was a wild impropriety that their necures; and it was to be considered, emoluments should increase in pro- that they had the appointment of portion to the distrels and difficulties their own clerks or deputics. Bar5


gains might therefore be struck be. ed. It was the desire of the noble tween the principals and the depu- person who hed proposed it, that the ties; and the public be exposed to servants of the public should not be charges that were unnecessary. The enriched by the aggravation of the allowing a thousand a year to the national burdens and distress. deputies seemed to him a ruinous He was' no friend to the influence prostitution of the public money ; of the crown; but he knew that and it was his firm opinion that the government of a great kingdon 400l. was a sufficient salary for could not proceed either with digthern. Nor did he perceive any nity or advantage, unless it had hopropriety in dividing the savings nourable fituations to bestow upon after the method suggested by lord its officers, in order to provide for John Cavendish. Why was the ci- their families, and to reward emivil lift to share with the public in nent and distinguished services. Of the participation. Eight or nine this fort properly were the offices of hundred thousand pounds a year the exchequer. Now of these, it were given to the crown by way of was obvious that the emoluments the civil list; and it was understood ought not to be either inordinately by implication that the officers of great, or contemptibly little. the exchequer, and various others, the first case the public was oppreffwere to be provided for out of it. ed; in the second a disregard was This was the condition of the grant. profeffed of high merit and illuftriNow if any confiderable sum was to

ous service. Po pare these places be acquired by a reform of the ex- too closely, would be to render them chequer, the public ought to enjoy unworthy the acceptance of distinthe whole benefit. The civil list guished and fuperior characters. had no pretext whatever to have any There was no provision in putting flare or proportion of it.

the tellers at 2,700l. And with reMr. Pitt concurred with Mr. gard to a thousand pounds as the Pulteney, and considered the kind- falary of the deputies, it was by no Defs of lord John Cavendish to the means extravagant. The fituatione tellers, and their deputies, as the of the deputies were responsible most extravagant expenditure of the ones : they were underftood to be public treasure. If reforms were to gentlemen, and persons of education be made, they ought to be proceed- and a liberal turn of mind. That ed upon with some degree of rigour. the giving a thousand pounds to a All ideas of profufion were out of deputy was in fact a grant to the the question.

principal who appointed him, was Mr. Fox defended the principle an idea the most illiberal and narand intention of the bill. If it had row. If it were poffible that the been brought in for the purpose of tellers could be so base and fordid effecting that kind of reform which as to make fo vile a traffic as that albad æconomy merely in view, he luded to, it was impoffible for the would certainly in many particulars legislature to guard against their turhave opposed it. But that was not pitude. This way of reasoning also its leading object. Its chief refer- went too far. For if it were adence was to those offices of which mitted in its full extent, there was the bolders received an augmenta- no official deputy in the kingdom, tion of emolument in proportion as whose principal was not exposed to the expences of the country increal- the dirtieft of all imputations. Even


the secretaries of state might be fuf. peatedly declined it. His reasons perted. It was indecent to give any for this conduct were not given; credit to bargains of this kind; and and perhaps it would have been bete he believed that no persons could be ter it he had definitively accepted named who had been guilty of them. the offer. The promile, however, To be alarmed, therefore, upon having been deliberately made, hé their account, was to tremble at a was by no means disposed to put his fhadow. As to the oflices of the ex- negative against the proviso which chequer, it it was contended that had been suggested, the disposal of them gave an influ- Mr. Fox affirmed, that the question ence to the crown; it was observ- under, deliberation was purely perable, that it was exactly that influ. fonal, and therefore disagreeable. Ic ence which of all others was the became hiin, notwithstanding, to speak least dangerous. For the individue to it. To him it appeared not inexals promoted in that office were made plicable that lord Thurlow Mould reindependent of the crown, as they fuse to accept the promise of the tel. could not be hurt by it. Their lerthip. When the offer was inade, fituations were for life; and in a one reverfion was actually granted; free country it was neceflary and and a second reverlion was not only useful, in a variety of initances, that unusual and redious in the expect men Mould be out of the power of ation, but a better object might falt. the crown.

But if at that time there was prudence It was the sense of the house that in refusing the promise, there was the objections hitherto made to the now a change in the situation of bill were improper; and after their affairs; and prudence called loudly discuffion, Mr. Rigby being anxious for the acceptance of the promise. to protect the promise of a tellership Circumstances were indeed effen. which had been given to lord Thur- tially altered. One of the poffeffors low, rose up to propose a clause was dead, and another very infirm. with that view. He reminded the This opened the mystery ; and it house that lord Thurlow, when he could not be conceived to be strange quitted the profethion and accepted that the noble lord hould grow the office of lord chancellor, ob- more willing to accept a tellership in tained from his majesty the promise proportion to the near approach of of a tellership in the exchequer. the object. This promise had been made in the The principle of the proviso was year 1778; and he trusted that lord a selfish one. It went to secure an Thurlow had a title to expect a re- emolument to lord Thurlow. For version of a tellership fully and be- this emolument, however, there neficially. He read accordingly a could be urged no grant of reversion. proviso, exempting lord Thurlow. If the house accordingly were to from the power of the bill.

serve lord 'Thurlow, they must go Lord North allowed that it was out of their way to do it. He spoke true, that when lord Thurlow was from no motive of resentment. He made chancellor, he had been offer- knew that the noble and learned ed a tellerfhip in the exchequer ; but lord had made what were considered abserved that his lordsluip did not as severe reflexions against him. But then think proper to accept it. The reflexions which had no better founplace had afterwards been repeatedly dation than party. anger, envy, or held out to him; and he had re. prejudice, could not four his mind."


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