Senate.] On the Judiciary. [FEB. 15, 1825. explicit in declaring his belief of the necessity of some four millions, and was limited to the old thirteen states; change being effected, but under the conviction that now, the case was very different, the theatre in which there was not sufficient time remaining: any plan they this vast jurisdiction was to be exercised, was those immight adopt must of necessity be carried through in a mense regions inhabited by millions of people that will hasty manner, totally incompatible with the vast import-be produced in the course of time. It surely did not ance of the subject-he thought that it was one of the follow as a necessary consequence, that because a most important that could be presented for their delibe- scheme, adopted under one set of circumstances, provration and would call forth all the talent of both Houses ed wise and salutary, it was to continue so when those of Congress. His friend (Mr. TALBOT,) suggested that circumstances had entirely changed. The gentleman this was the only time that any amelioration could be admitted that this scheme was now defective, because effected, and if it were now postponed nothing would he was striving to mend it, yet he commended the oribe done. But, said Mr. B. there was but one sentiment ginal scheme. That, Mr. B. said, would be no longer on this subject. It was not the question whether a of any service; we were a new people, and a wise legisjudge should be located in Kentucky, Tennessee, or lature, in adopting those measures which promised to be Ohio, but what should be the organization of that tribu- most useful, would pay some regard to those changes nal, which, they were told, carried the destiny of the which must inevitably ensue in progress of time. He nation in its decision. That was the great question to would advert to facts. There were, according to the be decided, and when it was considered what import- statement of the gentleman from Kentucky, nine hunant consequences were involved by a wise or unwise dred cases on the docket of that state. They had half a decision, it would not excite much surprise that they million of people; and if they went on progressing as should approach the subject with some degree of cau- they did now, they would, in fifty years, have 90,000 tion, and ask for ample time for deliberation. It was causes untried. Mr. B. said he would content himself asked, why was not this scheme proposed earlier in the with making his estimate at one-third of that number, session? He would reply, last Thursday was the time 30,000. Allowing that there was an appeal in one cause the bill was called up. Was it for them, who were not out of fifty, it would leave six hundred causes to be departicularly concerned in bringing forward this measure cided annually by the judge. to call it up, and suggest a scheme by way of amendment? It was sufficient they were at their posts when it was called up, and had then expressed the views they had of the subject. Three propositions were now before the Senate, on this subject, and how could it possibly be properly discussed and receive the sanction of both houses of Congress in so short a space of time as now remained indeed, it was not at all desirable that a measure of such magnitude should be so pressed on, that mature deliberation could not be exercised on it. Mr. B. thought that the gentleman from Kentucky had availed himself to the utmost of the privileges of that body, in indulging in a wide range of discussion. If this had been a motion of indefinite postponement on the merit of the question, his objections would have been in order, but when it was distinctly stated that it was merely to gain time for deliberation, he thought the discussion should have been limited to that naked proposition, because the merits of the question were not implicated, his colleague having pledged himself to assist the friends of the measure in obtaining their object the ensuing session. It was impossible the court could sit more than fifty judicial days, which would leave twelve cases a day to be decided, whereas, if they appealed to experience, they would find that one case in twelve days would approach nearer the truth. The effect of all this would be, that the docket would go on increasing, the fountain of justice would be clogged, and appeals would be made from every part with no other end in view than that of producing delay. Mr. B. repeated his opinion as regarded the necessary qualifications of a Judge of the Supreme Court. There must be, he said, a mass of intelligence and experience, a character to be acquired which could only be the result of many years laborious exertion, and it was out of the question to tell him that such a man as this could traverse the empire to do all the duty required as Circuit Judge, and then come to this city and act as Supreme Judge. His friend alluded to the beautiful turnpike roads and comfortable steam boats. Those were luxuries which were, no doubt, duly appreciated in the East; but, if he would turn to the West, he would find they were not so easily to be enjoyed, unless, indeed, the gentleman had, in imagination, established the canal across the Alleghanies. Till that event took place, Mr. B. thought, he had been rather too sanguine on the subject. He would advise him to go to the Supreme Court, to cast his eye on the gentlemen occupying the bench, and then say whether they possessed the physical power of making such extensive journeys. Suppose, said Mr. B. Missouri should present a person, every way qualified, to be a Supreme Judge, (an event, he thought, very probable, from the talent and genius which had emanated from that state,) a person like the present Chief Justice in point of years and wisdom, could he be expected, after having fulfilled all his duties there, to come here every year at the most inclement season, and under circumstances of the greatest difficulty? No! It was utterly impracticable. It was his opinion that the officers of the Supreme Court must be Mr. B. said he admitted, no scheme could be proposed that was not liable to some objection or other. The gentleman from Kentucky had taken this opportunity to compliment the judicial system of Great Britain. Mr. B. admitted it was a good one, but one that was not calculated to operate beneficially on a large extent of territory. Was it possible, that the twelve judges of England could pass through the whole of the British possessions, in different parts of the world? Were such a proposition to be made, the judges, and all England, would listen with astonishment. Yet he thought one of those judges could visit British Canada in less time, and with more facility, than a judge of the Supreme Court could come from Missouri to Washington. In preparing a scheme of this kind, it was necessary to glance into futurity, and to contemplate the time when territory would be added to territory, till they passed the Rocky Mountains. Were the judges of the Circuit and Su-limited to the Metropolis. preme Court centered in one person, what could he Mr. B. said, that an incidental remark he had made perform in those distant regions, and then come to Wash-had been misunderstood, and the gentleman had made ington to fulfil his important duties there? And yet, because the Western states required an increased number of judges, they were to rush precipitately on this measure, and shut their eyes as to the future consequences. It was urged that the scheme now in force was adopted by the wisest and best of mankind. At that time, Mr. B. said, the population was but three or a case of his own, and had discoursed most eloquently upon it. He did not say the Judges were to learn the law from the counsel, but he said that the counsellors on both sides would state the law, in connection, to the Judges of the Supreme Court, and the Judge, with the text and comment before him, would be able to decide. The gentleman said that these Judges were to make themselves acquainted with the laws of the different states by traversing the Union. But, said Mr. B. he surely could not mean to say that they should be itiner. ants through all the states. He could be only in one or two states, and the time that he would consume in traversing the others would be far better employed in his closet examining the laws of the different states; the consequences would be far more beneficial to the coun try. Mr. B. said the principal object he rose for was to notice the allusions the gentleman from Kentucky had made to the decisions of the Supreme Court, the nationality of its character, and the particular bearing of his allusions on the state of Virginia. As far as he was able to understand him, he meant to say, that he (Mr. B.) had defended those decisions of the Supreme Court which had produced excitement at home. [Mr. TALBOT said he had been misunderstood, and explained.] Mr. BARBOUR said, when that subject was touched upon before, he had declared he did not conceive it was any part of his duty to be the apologist for the Supreme Court. Nor had he the vanity to suppose, if he were so disposed, that he could represent the grounds on which they made those unpopular decisions, half so strongly as they had done. But every gentleman of the Senate would recollect that when a reference was made on the other side of the House, without any reference to the subject on his part, when the judgment of the Supreme Court was arraigned, he (Mr. B.) observed, that these gentlemen constituted a co-ordinate branch of the government, and there was a courtesy due from one department of the government to the other. If any member or department of government were guilty of an impropriety, it was the duty of every faithful servant of the government to sound the alarm, that the evil might receive a speedy and effectual remedy; but that irritation, which was produced by the insinuations of one department against another, when no effectual measure was contemplated, was incompatible with the genius and spirit of the government. Therefore, it was that he had insinuated, with submission, that courtesy required they should speak of the co-ordinate branches of government with respect. He should not violate his own rule by entering into any discussion on the decisions that had been made, the reasons on both sides were before the people, and let them decide for themselves. Mr. B. said, there was another objection to which he wished to call the attention of the Senate. It had been said that this court would be too national. It had already exhibited frightful symptoms of nationality; by locating them here that nationality would be increased, and finally, this court would ride triumphant over the desolation of which it will have been the cause. Mr. B. protest ed warmly against insinuations of this kind against the Supreme Court, and said, if ever the time should come, which God avert, that this branch of the government, in which was deposited the peace and tranquillity of the Union, should commence destroying the rights of states, and prostrating their independence, instead of the little murmur of excitement that was now occasionally heard, they would hear the voice of the whole nation, swelling as it advanced, till it announced that the people had felt this oppression committed on their rights, and were about to take decisive measures. If, after forty years, it is found that the power of this court has not been abused, they might reasonably expect that it would not be hereafter. If they were in reality thus formidable in their power, the gentleman was going to increase it instead of abstracting a portion of it, by increasing their number. For certainly that which a small number would dare to do, a larger number would not shrink from. As new states were added, more judges would be necessary, and the court would be deprived of its character of a small deliberative body. [Senate. Mr. B. said he would offer one more remark. It was true, as the gentleman had suggested, that the Supreme Court was the most transcendent judicial tribunal in the world; others dwindled to nothing in comparison with it. In other tribunals, the mere question of meum et tuum limited their jurisdiction, but here, in addition, were decided the great questions which presented themselves under the constitution of the United States.They were the most august tribunal in the world, but notwithstanding they were not so supreme as the gentleman intimated, for there was a yet higher power, to which the Supreme Court must bow, that was, public opinion. It was the people they looked to under all circumstances, and in every vicissitude they had a confidence in the integrity and wisdom of the people.They were the sheet anchor which secured the safety of the vessel. The question on which they were to decide was one of vast importance to the tranquillity and well-being of the Union; and what was required of these old men? Why, to traverse the empire with the rapidity and facility of post boys, and then they were to be allowed only fifty days to deliberate on those important questions, whose consequences were so important to the well-being of the country. The plan of the gentleman from Kentucky required bodily vigor-his, required the mental vigor necessary for such judges. They ought to have their own time to deliberate on questions of this sort, and to turn and return the different authorities till their decisions should challenge the admiration of all but the interested party. Mr. B. said, though he should vote in the affirmative on this proposition, he begged his friend to believe that he would cordially unite with his colleague in the determination to assist him in the plan which would be adopted for their benefit. Mr. KELLY, of Alabama, thought it would be very unjust, after application had been made from year to year for relief, now to postpone the consideration of this important question to another session, and that too on the supposition that they had not time to think about it. The people of the Western country, he could assure them, had a very different expectation. He could not conceive where was the immense difficulty in the arrangement of either of the two systems proposed for their relief, the extension of the system, or the forma tion of a separate Supreme Court. If the majority were willing to extend the benefits of a system that were enjoyed by one portion of the Union to another portion, he thought there could be no difficulty in the way. So much time and deliberation certainly were not necessary, and he submitted to the Senate whether a question of this kind, on which so much feeling had been excited in the West, was to be passed off by postponement without consideration. It was incumbent on them in acting to act as much as possible to the satisfaction of all parts of the Union, and if they said they had not time to consider the question this session, what assurance would be given to the people of the West that it should afterwards be considered? It was just as probable that next session opposition would be made, and if they acted on this subject at all they would do it in opposition to some gentlemen who would call for time to consider. It was, Mr. K. said, no small matter to live under the circumstances in which a large proportion of the Western people do live-a large proportion of the freehold property is still depending in court for trial, and in many instances both parties were already ruined. The District Judges were not men of the highest honor, nor had they the capacity to make a correct decision in an intricate cause, the consequence was, they did not possess the confidence of the people, and ill-will and confusion reigned amongst them. The present bill proposed the addition of three judges to the Supreme Court, and the leading objection seemed to be the increase of numbers. He acknowledged that that objection might possess some weight, but saw no reason why they should not at once proceed to settle it. It was no small matter to let this huge mass of litigation in the Western country go on unattended to and undecided, even to the next session of Congress. If the majority of the House were opposed to the bill, and preferred the formation of a separate Supreme Court-be it so. He only required them to act on the question, that the people might see they had attended to the subject, and their complaints had been listened to with some degree of attention. If it were now postponed, the people would not see the necessity of such a measure, and would come to the mortifying conclusion, that a deaf ear had been turned to their complaints. [FEB. 15, 1825. such courts. These courts were held by District Judges, on whom Congress had conferred the power, whilst in the other states, they were held by the judges of the Supreme Court themselves. There was a disparity certainly, but those were inconveniences that fell far short of those they would suffer, were they deprived of the circuit system altogether. The evil, though serious, was not so imperious as to preclude the least delay, but call on ongress to act on a subject of such importance, under the circumstances in which we stood. If, however, the Senate thought they had time to carry it thro' with proper deliberation, he was willing to go on with it. Mr. JOHNSON, of Kentucky, was much gratified to hear the justice of the claims of the Western people acknowledged by the gentleman from New York, (Mr. Mr K. was prepared to adopt either system, as being VAN BUREN.) The question, he said, was neither new infinitely preferable to the present state of things in the or complicated in its character, for it had been before part of the country he came from. He urged them to them the greater part of three sessions, therefore, so act on either system-the measure had been so long much time could not now be required to arrange and pending, that it must, he said, be familiar to every mem- discuss it. It was the general opinion that something ber of the Senate; and with the legal abilities they had ought to be done for their relief, and it was their duty amongst them, there could be no difficulty in making to sit early and late, till some efficient plan was organizthe necessary arrangements. He concluded by observed for that purpose. Mr. J. then made a few remarks ing, that if they could not be satisfied to the extent of their wishes, they would be content to take whatever they could get. Mr.VAN BUREN, of New York, said, that the question immediately before the Senate, was a motion to postpone indefinitely, made on the single ground of want of time to do justice to so important a subject. The wide range of debate which this question had produced, would be more properly considered when the previous question was disposed of. The motion had been divided-it was, in the first instance, to recommit the bill with specific instructions. The division of the question would not prevent the consideration of the instructions proposed, and to recommit it without instructions, would only cause useless delay. It was a question which of the three systems that had been proposed for affording the relief that was asked, should be adopted. The bill on the table, proposes to retain the present system, and extend it to the new states, by increasing the number of the judges of the Supreme Court. Some were of opinion that that system is not calculated for the time in which we live, and that it is necessary to change it, and substitute one better adapted to the present state of the Union. Was there any reasonable probability that a bill, having for its object to provide a permanent judicial system for this country, could be prepared and passed in the few remaining days of the session? The season for temporary expedients had passed, and what they did now, must be of a permanent character. The appoint. ment of three new judges would, in the opinion of many, make the Supreme Court too numerous, and by authorizing their appointment, the door would, for a long time to come, be closed against the substitution of any other system. Mr. V. B. said, for himself, he was prepared to act in regard to the subject; his willingness to postpone, arose from a conviction that there was not sufficient time to do justice to the subject; but if the motion to postpone should not prevail, he hoped the Senate would devote their undivided attention to it, until it was completed. The sense of the Senate would be taken, and if its decision be in favor of postponement, he would cheerfully co-operate with the gentleman from Virginia, in taking the business up at the commencement of the ensuing session, and bestowing the utmost attention upon it. He acknowledged the justice of the claims of the Western states to have a new judicial system established embracing them, or to grant them a fair participation in that which already existed. Those six states to whom the Circuit system was not yet extended, were not, however, entirely deprived of on the organization of the Supreme Court, the extent of its powers, &c. and concluded by protesting strongly against the bill being postponed. Mr. EATON, of Tennessee, rose to object to the postponement of the bill. Whether the relief sought for, should be now obtained or not, to many gentlemen of the Senate might appear of little importance; but it was very different to the people of the West, who, for a tedious time past, and up to the present moment, had been urging complaints, and asking redress. It was important to ascertain whether or not any thing could be done for them; if nothing could be done, he at least hoped that Congress would be civil enough to say to them, their claim had been patiently heard and examined, not hastily postponed. He said he felt himself under great obligation to both the gentlemen from Virginia, one of them had declared his entire willingness to take up the matter next year and apply a corrective; the other, (Mr. BARBOUR,) was disposed to be equally generous and liberal, provided he should be here. No one could entertain a higher respect for the character and services of the gentleman than he did, or should regret his departure from that body, more than he should, unless his absence should bring with it, some correspondent benefit to himself. Virginia might very well promise her future services and good wishes; had the West been as well taken care of, they too might be willing to wait until the next session. Virginia had nothing to complain of on the subject of the Judiciary; she was amply provided for, by having within her limits two of the Judges of the Supreme Court, both of them men of distinction, and whose decisions carried satisfaction and confidence with them when made. This, he said, was not the case with the West, where but a single Judge had been assigned to perform the business of nine states. Tennessee had, to be sure, heretofore derived some advantage from this system, defective as it was, for, occasionally, not always, she had an associate Justice to settle the disputes of her citizens; but even that had lately vanished, inasmuch as the Circuit Court of Ohio, by an act of the last session of Congress, had been assigned for the very day on which the Circuit Court at Nashville sat. He contended, that one portion of the Union, was as much entitled to the fostering care of the Legislature as another: privileges enjoyed by one section, others had not only a right to ask for, but to demand. The present system, he said, had been made many years ago; it was coeval with the Government, and had been esta blished with a view to the old thirteen states which formed the original compact; it had, by the addition of another Judge, been partially extended to the West; FEB. 15, 1825.] On the Judiciary.-Ohio Canals. [Sen. & H. of R. The question then recurring on the motion to re-com- but then the West had outgrown this arrangement, both Mr EATON said he believed he should be found correct in stating, that more than one fourth of the suits at present pending in the Supreme Court, were for the states beyond the Allegany mountain; of which a large proportion were for the states of Tennessee and Kentucky. This he thought was an important consideration, yet they were told it was time enough yet. Year after year the same language had been been held, wait yet a little longer, and by and by it shall be seen what can be done for you. The gentlemen from Virginia, who were so securely provided for, might well hold such a language as this. Comfortably seated by a warm fire, they might well say to the cold and half starved pilgrim wandering on his way, go hence and trouble us not, and when the morning comes we will inquire what can be done for you; in the mean time he dies! Twice or thrice bad a bill extending relief, gone from the Senate to the House, and failed in its progress. Again we at tempt it, and are told, Wait yet another year, until we can consider what is right and proper to be done; give us a little more time-another year for deliberation. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES-SAME DAY. Mr. HEMPHILL, from the Committee on Roads and Canals, reported a bill, declaring the assent of Congress to an act of the General Assembly of Virginia, therein mentioned; which was twice read, and ordered to be engrossed and read a third time to-morrow. Mr. HEMPHILL explained, very briefly, the object of the bill, and moved that it be ordered to be engrossed for a third reading. Mr. COCKE asked for the reading of the bill. [It was read accordingly.] He then wished to know why the assent of Congress was required at all. This canal surely did not run through the District of Columbia. He objected to the bill, as proceeding on the principle that the United States have power to make what improvements they please in the several states-a principle to which he could never consent, as it interfered with the rights of the states, and had never been confided to Congress by the people. Mr. ARCHER, of Virginia, explained the nature of the bill, and protested against entertaining the opinion respecting the rights of Congress, which was supposed by the gentleman from Tennessee to be involved in the bill. The reason why Congress was called upon to give its consent to this bill was, that the contemplated improvements on the Appomattox river, were on the tide waters, and so might be held to be within the admiralty jurisdiction of the General Government. The bill did not ask the aid of Congress, nor did it settle any question of power, but was merely meant to meet and remove the objections of those who doubted the power of the state of Virginia to interfere with the waters within the admiralty jurisdiction of the General Government. If the jurisdiction of a state did extend (which he was not prepared to deny,) over the tide waters of its rivers, then the act would only be supererogatory, and could do no harm. But the community would never spend its money in improving that stream unless it had some security that the General Government would not afterwards interfere on the ground of jurisdiction. The people of the West, he said, were certainly laboring under great grievances in relation to their Judiciary; six or eight hundred suits pending on the dockets of two states only, Tennessee and Kentucky, most conclusively prove, that no where was relief more demanded, or where remedy should be more speedily applied. Another matter, he said, merited consideration; it was, that most of the cases which come up from the West for revision and correction, depended upon local law, and were not to be accurately understood but by those who had grown up with the system, or had been a long time conversant with it; and yet for years past they had been compelled to bring up cases here to the metropolis, apart from that advantage, to be decided by Judges who had little or no information of the law which regulated those decisions. Many suits decided in the Courts below, were under $2,000, which authorized an appeal, and many which were above this amount were to be submitted to, for the reason that the suitors were not in a situation to encounter the heavy expense inci- The bill was then ordered to be engrossed for a third dent to a trial here. If, under these circumstances, mis-reading to-morrow. takes and errors were committed, there was no alterna- Mr. WRIGHT, of Ohio, offered the following resolutive but submission. Of these things the people of the West had complained until they were indeed wearied with complaining; and their grief was the greater, because, while their condition was so wretched, they beheld other portions of the country fully and amply provided for. In his opinion, it did not comport with that strict and impartial justice which should characterize the Congress of the United States, to refuse relief for those crying inconveniences under which the western people had so long labored. Patience and long suffer ing had been theirs, and still they are told to wait yet a little longer. He concluded, by expressing a hope that the bill would not be postponed. The question being taken on the indefinite postponement of the bill, it was decided in the negative, by yeas and nays, as follows: YEAS.-Messrs. Barbour, Barton, Branch, Clayton, Cobb, Edwards, Elliott, Findlay, King, of N. Y. Lowrie, Macon, Mills, Taylor, Tazewell, Van Buren, Van Dyke-16. tion, viz : Resolved, That the Committee on Roads and Canals be instructed to inquire into the expediency of granting to the State of Ohio such sections of land, now owned by the United States, as shall be intersected in the location of the Canals lately authorized to be made in that state; or so much of said sections as remain unsold. Mr. WRIGHT said, that, in offering this resolution to the consideration of the House, he deemed it proper for him to state, for the information of the House, that the Legislature of Ohio, within a month past, with a unanimity almost unparalleled, and highly creditable, had passed acts providing for the connexion of the waters of Ohio with those of Lake Erie, and the city of Cincinnati with the fertile country back of it, by canal navigation. Provision had been made to raise the necessary funds, and to commence the work during the ensuing season, and to prosecute it with all practicable expedition. The whole extent of the canals authorized, including navigable feeders, was about four hundred miles. NAYS.-Messrs. Bell, Benton, Bouligny, Brown, It would be recollected that, in the new States west, Chandler, Dickerson, Eaton, Gaillard, Holmes, of Maine, the public lands were not vested in the state authorities, Holmes, of Miss. Jackson, Johnson, of Ken. Johnston, of but in the General Government; and that these states Lou. Kelly, King, of Alab. Knight, Lanman, Lloyd, of are inhibited in the legislation, preceding their admisMass. McLean, Noble, Palmer, Parrott, Ruggles, Sey-sion into the Union, from interfering with the primary mour, Smith, Talbot, Thomas, Williams-28. disposition of the soil. It will be seen, therefore, that, in prosecuting these works, difficulties may be encountered at the commencement, insurmountable without Congressional enactment, from the want of authority to enter upon, and construct a Canal through the Lands of the United States. The lands along the contemplated line of the Canals are mostly disposed of; only a few scattered lots or sections remain unsold. They are all surveyed into small lots or sections, of not exceeding one mile square each. In this state of things, my object in submitting the resolution is to obtain authority for the state to enter upon and construct their Canals upon such of the United States' Lands as may be intersected in locating the Canals, and to obtain a grant for the use of the Canals, of the grounds and materials necessary for the Canals, of the unsold parts of the lots or sections over which the Canals may pass. The resolution was agreed to. UNCLAIMED STOCK DIVIDENDS. The resolution yesterday offered by Mr. LIVINGSTON, was again read, requiring the names of persons holding unclaimed dividends of U. S. stock. In support of this resolution, Mr. LIVINGSTON observed that the House had, some time since, on a resolution offered by him, directed the Secretary of the Treasury to make, in substance, the communication now required. That officer had complied with the call, but had presented to the House merely the aggregate amount of dividends unclaimed. There was certainly a strong call upon the justise of the House to obtain a more detailed statement. The report informs us that there is, in the Treasury, the amount of $226,000 in dividends of this description. Why was this amount suffered to remain there? It must be owing to ignorance or mistake on the part of those entitled to receive it. This question was, whether the United States could honestly avail itself of either the one or the other, to retain the amount? The money does the United States no good. It is nominally, to be sure, in the Treasury, but it is actually in the bank of the United States. The bank has long been trading upon it, and will, no doubt, continue to trade upon it, until the names of the holders of these dividends shall be published. He had heard an objection urged by an officer of the bank, that the amount was made up of small items, the interest of which would, in many cases, be only a few cents a year. He considered this objection as amounting to little. He thought there must be among them some large items, to make up such an amount as was reported. But if it were not so, the officers of the bank were paid for their time and their services; and though the account might be minute and troublesome, the trouble it might occasion was not to be put in competition with the benfit likely to result. The names of all the persons entitled to receive these dividends, even when they amounted only to a few cents, ought to be published. In a course of years these cents would amount to dollars, and might be greatly needed by those who now ignorantly suffered them to lie unclaimed. They might be owned by a person who died abroad, and his heirs be ignorant that he held any stock. They might be owned by insolvents, whose creditors were not apprised of the fact. It had also been objected, that such a publication might lead to frauds; that persons would come forward with false powers of attorney, and receive what did not belong to them. But, Mr. L. said, if this objection was worth any thing, did it not apply with still greater force to the case which now existed? The names of these stockholders were known to some persons now; but they were very few. Among them were the clerks in the bank. These persons were not always discreet, and if they were disposed to avail themselves of the information thus possessed, they had the opportunity of committing frauds without the remotest danger of detection. [FEB. 15, 1825. The second part of the resolution, Mr. L. said, proposed to call on the Secretary of the Treasury for the names of all those persons who drew the dividends of stock, on standing powers of attorney. This would lead to the detection of frauds, if any existed, in the drawing of dividends upon stock. As matters now stood, the temptation to fraud was certainly very strong. Mr. STORRS, of New York, opposed the resolution, not because he wished to withhold information from this House, or from the public, but, because he doubted the right of this House to disclose what was a matter of confidence and of private concern. In every moneyed institution, the relative interest of different stockholders was a confidential thing: and they would have reason to complain, if the confidence thus reposed in the institution was violated, unless from some great and pressing necessity. The resolution also calls for the names of all persons holding standing powers of attorney from stock. holders. Of what imaginable use could this be, unless it was to gratify curiosity? If any of those powers of attorney were forged, the House had nothing to do with it. Persons offending were amenable to the laws. The measure appeared, therefore, to have no practical utility. As to publishing a list of all the unclaimed dividends, every gentleman must be aware what a scene of speculation and fraud would be produced by such a publication. The evils attending the measure were obvious, and were such as not only to counterbalance, but far to exceed the possible benefits of it. It would be better to leave all these matters to private interest. Many persons might have their private reasons for leaving their dividends there—and, should they never be claimed at all, they were to benefit a valuable institution. At all events, there was no pressing necessity which required the exposure of the private concerns of individuals, as proposed by this resolution. Mr LIVINGSTON observed, in reply, that the objections which had been urged against the resolution were such as he had anticipated, and had already endeavored to answer; with the exception of one, and that was one of the most extraordinary objections that he could well conceive. The gentleman tells the House that the names of the holders of this stock are a matter of confidence, and that the holders would complain if that confidence was violated. This was the first time he had ever heard such a sentiment, and he was unable to conceive on what it was founded. A matter of confidence, when a man subscribes openly, and makes the assignment of his stock at a public office! Where is the confidence? But, if not expressed, this confidence was said to be implied. But how implied, and on what principle? What injury is done to the stockholder by publishing his name? The gentleman from New York spoke as if some great evil, too great and too obvious to need being stated, were to follow this disclosure; an evil so great as to counteract all the benefit, if indeed any could result from it. That gentleman asked what the benefit of it could be? I answer, said Mr. L. it will be, that this Government shall not do injustice, and shall not continue to hold what does not belong to it. Is this nothing? Is it nothing that a great nation shouļa disdain to take advantage of the inadvertance of its own citizens? But, it is said that it will open a door to frauds. Suppose that, in a few cases, this should happen. Suppose there should be one case in ten-would the fraud in the one case countervail the benefit of doing justice, and perhaps of relieving want in nine other cases? Mr. L. again insisted on the danger of fraud being greater, now" that the names were known only to a few, than if they were published to all the world. Ile supported the resolution by some further observations with respect to the second part of it, and concluded by insisting that it would neither lead to a breach of confidence, nor to the commission of fraud. Mr. SHARPE, of New York, spoke in opposition to |