distinguished virtues, will always command the approbation of the people. In the progress of things, there is much truth in the observation; and, if we take care to select a man of real merit, who is, in all respects, fitted to promote the great objects of good government, we may confidently expect such a selection to be ultimately acceptable to the people.

It is made our duty to select from three candidates; and I contend (said he,) that, as it respects the state of their vote out of this House, they are upon an equal footing-they are all equally nominated for our support, each resting his claims upon his own individual qualifications. Why was this scope given to our selection, if their relative strength be obligatory upon our judgment? Neither the Constitution, or the principles of our Government, pay respect to less than a majority; and, as neither candidate before us possesses this advantage, what other guide have we? The gentleman has argued with great confidence, as if the plurality in vote, were to control our choice. If this were so, the discretion secured by the Constitution would be mere mockery; it must be supposed to authorize us to choose from three, and yet to confine us to one; our duty would be simply to elect the man highest in vote, without regard to fit ness. But, sir, said Mr. MCLANE, this is not the principle of our Government. In the primary election, a majority of the people is to govern; here, a majority of the states. The plurality principle is in opposition to both. The majority of the people are certainly opposed to such a candidate-a majority of the states may be. The state of the vote in the colleges is the resul of a state of things which no longer exists. It may have been produced by the number of candidates, and without reference to a preference between the three persons from whom a choice is here to be made. It is our high privilege to weigh and consider all these things; to deliberate upon the qualification of the candidates, and to consider who would best serve the people, and whom they ought to, not less than whom they do, prefer.

The gentleman from S. C. has emphatically desired me to suppose that one man should receive 130 electoral votes, and asks if I should dare put by his claims. Sir, the case is by no means puzzling. I should dare to do so, if in my conscience I believed such a candidate unfit to be the ruler of this nation. I should consider the case as still one of expediency. I admit that so strong a vote ought to have, and could not fail to have, great weight; but still there would be 131 electoral votes opposed to him, being a majority of the people; and there would be quite as much propriety in supposing that that majority would prefer another, more especially, if, in reality, he should be better qualified for the station.

[FEB. 7, 1825.

ces, we should be persuaded he was wholly incapable of administering the Government—what would the gentleman from S. C. do in such case? Would he surrender his judgment and conscience to the mistaken preference of his constituents, or fearlessly consult his higher duty to his country?

It was no stretch of the imagination, said Mr. McLANE, for him to suppose further, that some one candidate, returned to the House of Representatives, should be discovered in the use of improper means to promote his elevation: the patronage of his office may have been held out in anticipation, and indications of a policy and administration injurious to the great interests of the nation. In such a case, who could hesitate between the mandate of his instruction, and his duty to the nation?

Sir, said Mr. McLANE, the only true and safe course, is to treat this body as an independent tribunal, bound to elect the man best qualified, in their judgment, to administer the affairs of the nation.

If we are bound by instructions, who have the right to instruct us? It has been already shown, that the election here is federative, and not by numbers; the votes are by States and not by the People. We are called to perform this duty for the whole nation, not for any part of it; for all the states, and not for any one in particular. When we enter upon this duty, we lose our relation to our immediate constituents, and are charged with a duty for the whole Union. We become the judges and umpires of the whole; we are to act for the interests of the whole.

It is in this way only, that the equality of the votes of states here, can be reconciled with the general theory of the Government. If I act here under the instruction and dominion of Delaware, the population of that state controls tenfold its numbers elsewhere. But, if I act here, under no more particular responsibility to my immediate constituents in Delaware, than to the rest of the Union, and consulting the interests of the whole, this disparity, which has been so much complained of, disappears.

If in this election I preserve my ordinary relation to the people of Delaware, then to them only am I responsible, and upon me their instructions only, are obligatory. What then becomes of the plurality vote, if their instructions command me to disregard and disobey it?

I ask again, said Mr. McLANE, Where is the power from whence these instructions can constitutionally emanate? From the people they cannot, for there is no mode by which their will can be ascertained. For I de-.. sire to protest against all partial or local assemblages as indicating the will of the majority. From the Legisla. tures they cannot, for these bodies are charged with no such duties, and can have no better means of ascertain

This doctrine of the plurality preference and of instruc-ing the public will than we, who spring from the same tion, would naturally lead to the most dangerous consequences, and defeat one great object of coufiding the choice to us. It holds all our information and experience for naught, and deprives the people of all advantage from the very qualities for which they have selected us for this duty. It can rarely happen that the people of these states can have a full knowledge of the character and principles of men who may be presented for their suffrages. They judge from the representations of others, or from some single glaring or striking act.

source. Sir, said Mr. McL.ANE, if we are called, in the discharge of this duty, to act for the whole people of this Union, and are bound to consult the interests of the whole; and if, in the performance of our duty, the plurality of the votes of the whole people, expressed in their elections, can have no obligatory force with us, how can it be said, that the opinions or instructions of our particular county or district, or even a state, can be more imperative?

Mr. McLANE said, when he was up a few days ago, he The preference is no doubt founded upon his sup-had ventured to argue, that if we were bound to regard posed fitness and capacity. They believe him to be a the will or instruction of our particular districts, we wise, enlightened, and virtuous Statesman, sound and should be constantly in danger of making no election at practical in his views, and deserving their confidence. all. If each state have the right to instruct its RepresenBut, is it not possible for all these calculations to prove tatives, there can be no change until the one or other unfounded? Let me suppose, sir, said he, that we, who give way. The gentleman from South Carolina has may be better acquainted with the individual, when we taken occasion to express the utmost apprehension of came to inspect his character and test his fitness, find the consequences of no election, and would conceive that he is in reality distinguished for no one virtue, for himself an object of just reprobation if he could be inwhich the people preferred him; that, in our conscien- [strumental in producing such an alternative. But if he

FEB. 7, 1825.]

Election of President.

[H. of R.

imagine it to be sometimes a virtue to oppose even the wildest tumult. It behoved every man placed in such a station to meet the crisis with calmness and fortitude; to throw his eyes abroad over the whole scene, and do the best for the safety and happiness of the whole. It would ill become us, he said, in such a crisis, to be found timid and wavering, infirm of purpose, bending to the storm, or yielding our judgments to the commands of others.

be bound by the instructions of his constituents, and they direct him not to give way, he is no longer responsible; he yields to the power of others, and takes no blame to himself. Is there no danger to be apprehended from this quarter? Does excitement prevail no where but in this Hall? Are there no sectional jealousies, and local prejudices to be stirred up in such a contest? Does not every one know the height to which the public excitement may be carried by political contests, and the zeal and obstinacy with which angry par tizans maintain their point? Suppose, under such a state of excitement, that three candidates come to this House, with the states equally divided; how could we hope to make an election? Each state instructs its Representation to hold out, to nail their flag to the mast, and goed and distracted by serious and unavoidable difficulties: down with their ship; and all the evils of contending passions and jealousies immediately ensue. My word for it, said Mr. M'LANE, let the popular fervor be once fully roused, and the tumults will rage as wildly with out as within these walls. We cannot avoid these dif ficulties, until we learn to value our own freedom and independence; to be responsible only, in the discharge of our duty, to our own consciences, to the interests of a common country, and our ultimate dependence upon the will of a constitutional majority.

Our great duty, upon such an occasion as the present, was to compose difficulties, not to heighten them with others, or to be agitated by them ourselves. The sup position is, when the election of a President devolves upon this House, that the public voice has been distrustby the number of candidates, personal predilections, and hostility: local views and sectional jealousy; party feelings and factious excitement. By these and other causes, the public mind may have been thrown into the most bitter and violent commotion, alarming to both social and public tranquillity. The Constitution erects this House into a high and sacred tribunal, to compose and quiet these angry elements-to allow time for their fury to subside-to bring order out of confusion. We should be false to ourselves and to the country, if, instead of doing so, we should launch forth upon this wild ocean, and fret and vex it afresh. It is not for me to say how surely this would be done by bringing public excitement to operate upon our deliberations in such an election.

No responsibility could be weightier, and the doctrine of instruction and obedience,this counterfeit image of the people's will, could not fail to weaken it. It would do more-it would subvert the independence of the Representative, and seriously disturb the public tranquillity. As long as we are held to an honest, conscientious dis- Then, sir, said Mr. M'LANE, if I be correct in the charge of our duties here, we shall act with greater views I have taken of the rights and duties of the House judgment and circumspection-we shall measure our ob- of Representatives in this election, does it not follow, ligations by the scale of the Union, and act under views that all attempts to control, or sway, or intimidate the worthy of so high a trust. But we should no sooner cast free exercise of our sober, independent judgment, are off this independence, and yield our judgments and con-iedecorous and improper? He would not now detain the sciences to the dictates of any authority whatsoever, than House, after the time he had already consumed, in dewe should cease to exert our own faculties, and be driven tailing the various means which might be employed, about, the sport of every popular breeze. We should and the different kinds of influence which might be escape from our duty to the whole, and seek refuge un- brought to control the independence of members. It der the local or narrow and capricious views of a parti- was unnecessary for him, he said, to describe the efcular part. A high national responsibility, involving lof- fects of all those popular engines which a state of tiness of character and virtuous fame, would give way to high public excitement always puts in motion, and considerations of place and power; we should soon learn which, from the seeds sown in county meetings, to to value a seat on this floor more than the higher con- the fruits appearing in the persons of self-constituted cerns of a great nation; and, instead of consulting the committees, which may daily surround this Hall, were interests of the American people, we should obey only constantly operating. We guard the election by the the commands of a single Congressional district. people, said he, from all tumult and disorder, and careAccording to the theory for which he contended, said fully banish all illegitimate influence at a distance. Why Mr. M'LANE, the duty of a member of this House is that are we fearful of surrounding our own liberties with of a great moral agent, looking, with a single eye, to the equal security? The character of all these influences is welfare of a common country, and guided by considera-progressive; and the most fearful apprehensions entertions of a similar kind. He acts fearlessly and indepen-tained, by able commentators upon our constitution, of dently to the attainment of that end: if he fail, from an election by the House of Representatives, have been weakness of character, or through corrupt means, and from the effect of these extraneous influences, both civil give just offence, or produce injury to the people, the and military, which may easily be put in motion. Mr. remedy is found in the elective power of the people. It M'L. said he had no apprehension of such evils at the is the ultimate remedy for all evils and abuses in the present day; but he repeated, that now, when every Government, and will never prove inefficacious as long thing was comparatively tranquil and secure, was the as each public functionary shall be kept within its ap- most suitable time to make provision for the day, when propriate sphere. There is force enough in it to secure the tempers of gentlemen would be less calculated for an honest discharge of our duty-it is terrible only to cool deliberation. If the people had no power to interevil doers. If it be rashly or vindictively applied, it fere with our conduct, they could claim no right to sudeprives us of the honor of a seat here; but it leaves us perintend our deliberations. He had as little at stake as in possession of that which is of far more value, and well others, however, and should submit, with as good a calculated to alleviate the loss of place. I do not say grace, to the decision of the House. that the honor of a seat in this House is to be lightly esteemned, or that he who could not surrender it without regret, would be unworthy of its occupation; but I will say, that it is not likely to be honored by him who would be incapable of performing its duties with an honest independence. Mr. M'LANE said he was not ambitious of figuring in an opposition to the popular clamor, nor was he at all disposed to court responsibility; but he would not shrink from it, when it came upon him, and he could

Mr. M'LANE said he could not conclude his remarks without some notice of another topic of the gentleman of South Carolina, (Mr. M'DUFFIE,) to which he wished he could have been spared the duty of adverting. It was the reply which that gentleman had given to the precedent of 1801, which he Mr. M'L. had, on a former occasion, called to the attention of the House. It had been summarily and violently denounced, because it had emanated from the old federal party. Mr. M'LANE

H. of R.]

Election of President.

[FEB. 7, 1825.

was the pride of his state and the ornament of his country.

remarked, that what he said on a former occasion on this subject, would make it unnecessary for him to say much more now. He was not so weak as to enter, at Mr. WEBSTER then rose, and said, that the precise this time of day, upon a grave and argumentative de- question before the committee, as he understood it, was fence of the federal party. He well knew it was not to on expunging that part of the third rule to be observed be defended by speeches in or out of this House. It in conducting the approaching election, which prewould have to rely for its defence upon the wisdom and scribes that the galleries of this House, which at first propriety of its works, to which the general state of our are to be open to the public, may be cleared at any time national happiness and the cool judgment of posterity pending the election, at the request of the delegation of were tast affixing their seal. To the survivors of that any one state. If the motion obtains, the standing rule party, it must be a source of proud satisfaction to witness of the House on this subject will then be in order, which the wisdom of its policy daily triumphing over the bit is, that the Speaker, as a matter of duty, and a matter of terest prejudices, while those who had disappeared from course, may cause the galleries to be cleared whenever the stage, had passed to a higher reward. He could but any disorder, on the part of those who attend there, shall, lament, however, the disposition occasionally manifested in his opinion, render it expedient and proper. So that, to keep alive those old animosities. It was sufficient to in fact, the question before the committee, which has satisfy him that the Monster Party was not dead, but been, he would not say, the subject, but which has been sleeping, and not so sound but that now and then it the occasion of such an extended discussion, is simply would rouse up and shake his grisly mane. He had not this, whether the power of clearing the galleries, in case altogether distrusted the promise, that, in the present of disorder, shall rest with the Speaker of the House, or day, some Hercules would appear to rid us of this Mon- with the delegation from a state. This is the precise ster with more heads than the Lernæan of old, and he question, which the committee have to decide. A very sincerely hoped, that, after this labor should be achiev-broad discussion had been gone into, as to the effect of ed, he should not continue to be wounded by the ar- those various considerations which ought to influence a rows of the conquerer, more fatal than even those dip- member of this House in giving his vote. As constitutped in the gall of the ancient Hydra ing, either in whole or in part, the delegation of a state, The honorable gentleman from South Carolina, (Mr. he would not say that the arguments which had been M'DUFFIE,) however, had declined considering this as a brought forward had not any relation to each other. But precedent of the federal party; but had pronounced it he must say, that their relation to the question before the act of a party who had deliberately determined to the committee, was but slight. The question had been violate the Constitution of their country; and the gen-treated with a view to national considerations, but it tleman had further said, their reward had been political must be extremely evident, that the House could not infamy! Sir, said Mr. M'LANE, 1 hope this was rather prescribe how much relative consideration ought to be spoken in the heat of debate, than with a dispassionate given to one, and how much to another of these consiforesight of the extent of such a denunciation. He knew derations. And in such a case each member must judge the gentleman was too chivalrous to carry it out seri- for himself, what degree of respect is due to this or that ously to its consequences, and yet his remarks were lia-mode of expressing public opinion. Whether he shall ble to such an interpretation. However this may be, have regard to public opinion as it now is, or as it will said Mr. M'L. it is but declamation; nothing was at- soon be; on every question of this kind, each man must tempted upon that occasion that the Constitution at least decide for himself. A course of remark has been gone did not warrant, and men as pure as any this nation has into, historical allusions had been made, and not very produced, embarked in the enterprize. Sir, the politi- slight denunciations had been uttere, in relation to a cal infamy, of which the gentleman has spoken, exists former precedent, to all which it might be expected only in his own imagination. It has not tainted the life of that he should make some reply; and be certainly felt, scarcely an individual who was concerned in that fa- as was natural in his circumstances, a strong desire to do mous election. If the gentleman will cast his eye over so; but he was restrained from indulging this desire, by the Journal of that period, he will see the names of many what he considered to be his duty to the House. It must whose fame and virtues are much more to be envied than be, by this time, perfectly evident, that no valuable reshunned. One, and by no means the least eminent, was sult could be obtained by the most protracted discussion; then an able Representative of the same State which the and he would submit to the candor of gentlemen the progentleman now represents upon this floor. From that priety of making some disposition of the subject before period his life was marked by the exhibition of great them, without further delay. He hoped that the motion probity and talents, commanding public and private ad- he was about to make, would be received in the spirit miration; sharing, in his life, the confidence of his fel- in which it was made. The House was on the eve of a low-citizens, and, in his death, but the other day, wrap- great and interesting duty. It was indispensable that ping a neighboring city into mourning. some rules of proceeding should previously be adopted. With respect to the particular rule now in discussion, he considered it as very unimportant in itself. If important at all, it had only been made so by the discussion of which it had been made the subject. Rather than spend ten minutes more of the time of the House, he would, for himself, willingly consent, that the power in question should remain with the Speaker, or should be given to the delegation of a state. He, therefore, moved that the committee do now rise, and that the residue of the rules should be determined on in the House.

Sir, said Mr. M'LANE, my own state had the honor to claim as her Representative an able and conspicuous statesman of that Congress. Deservedly distinguished as he was for the noblest private and public virtues, the lustre of an illustrious life shone with new light upon the public eye after the scenes of that day. He lived only to give stronger proofs of his patriotism, and to fasten his hold upon public confidence and admiration. He was even selected, at a most critical period of public af. fairs, by a Republican administration, for a highly important trust, and bore a conspicuous share in that memorable negotiation which restored peace to a bleeding country. Sir, I have a high respect for the gentleman from South Carolina, and would rather smooth than obstruct the path of his fame; but, were my feelings for him much warmer than they are, I could not wish him a more enviable lot than the same portion of private and political character, which rewarded the virtues of the distinguished individual to whom I have alluded, who

The motion was agreed to, and the committee then rose, reported progress, and were refused leave to sit again: and the committee was discharged from the further consideration of the subject.

On motion of Mr. COCKE, the Committee of the whole on the State of the Union were discharged from the further consideration of the rules referred to it; and they were laid on the table. They were then taken up and read in order. The first rule is in the following words:

"1st, In the event of its appearing, on opening all the certificates, and counting the votes given by the electors of the several states for President, that no person has a majority of the votes of the whole number of the electors appointed, and the result shall have been declared, the same shall be entered on the journals of this House."

This rule, having been read, was agreed to.

The second rule, on motion of Mr. BASSETT, was amended,by inserting, after the word "called", the words by states;" and, thus amended, it reads as follows:

2d, The roll of the House, shall then be called, by states, and, on its appearing that a member or members from two-thirds of the states are present, the House shall immediately proceed, by ballot, to choose a President from the persons having the highest numbers, not exceeding three, on the list of those voted for as President; and in case neither of those persons shall receive the votes of a majority of all the states on the first ballot, the House shall continue to ballot for a President, without interruption by other business, until a President be chosen."

And, thus amended, it was agreed to.

The third rule having been read, a motion was made to strike out the last clause, which orders the galleries to be cleared at the request of the delegation of any one

state.

[H. of R.

have a right to instruct their delegates, then, instructions once given, cannot be resisted, and so the delegate must go on voting to the end, for the candidate designated by his own state, and thus the election will be prevented altogether. But this statement arises from an entire misapprehension of the ground I take. I did not contend that the delegate must go on voting to the end as he began, and so defeat the election. I only contended that the popular will of the state is as binding on me, as they say the dictate of conscience is binding on them. I will, therefore, turn the gentlemen's case upon themselves. Suppose there are three candidates, and the members from eight states hold themselves bound in conscience to vote each of them, can there be an election in this case? No, sir. They say, that if the popular will is to bind me, I must continue to submit to it. Well, sir, if conscience is to bind them, they must continue to submit to it. I do not say that the people have a legal right to instruct their delegates, but

[Here, Mr. WEBSTER observed, that he rose with great pain. He hoped the gentleman from South Carolina would do him the justice to believe, that nothing but an imperious conviction of duty induced him to interrupt an argument which he knew it would give him pleasure to hear, but he submitted whether it was in order to go into an argument in the House in reply to an argument urged in committee of the whole, any more than if it had been urged in a select committee.]

The SPEAKER decided that the observations of Mr. M'DUFFIE were not in order, on the ground stated, and that they were not in order for another reason, viz. that the whole scope of the debate was irrelevant to the question actually before the House.

Mr. M'DUFFIE, upon the latter ground, submitted to the decision of the Chair.

The question was then put on the amendment, and carried.

Mr. WRIGHT moved further to amend the rule, by inserting, after the words "Senators," the words "Stenographers;" which was carried.

And the rule, as amended, was adopted, and read, asfollows:

"3d, The doors of the Hall shall be closed during the balloting, except against members of the Senate, Stenographers, and the Officers of the House."

On this question, Mr. M'DUFFIE rose, and observed, that he left it to the House to determine on whom the responsibility rested, of giving to the present discussion the extensive range which it had taken. For himself, he had adopted as a constant rule, not to consume the time of the House by any remarks which had not a direct reference to the subject before it, or, which were not drawn out, by topics brought into the discussion by other gentlemen. As to the present discussion, he had considered the gentleman from Delaware as assuming, at the commencement of it, as the ground on which he thought it wise policy to clear the galleries, that members of this House, when engaged in electing a President, did not act as the delegates of the people, and were not responsible to them. The reply which he himself had made, was directed only to this principle. It went no further. In replying to his remark, the gentleman from North Carolina and the gentleman from Delaware, had extended the discussion still further, and had made a theoretical discussion of the powers of the House to bear on the question immediately before it. And now, at the close of one of the most eloquent and imposing arguments ever delivered in this House, a member rises in his place and suggests the impolicy of continuing the argument. He felt very great respect for that member, but he considered the matter to be discus-any sed as of the greatest importance. The principle laid down had a very wide and extensive bearing, and he felt it his duty to submit to the dictates of his own judgment, and give the principle that discussion which he considered it entitled to receive. The responsibility rested upon him, and he well knew the impatience of the House, and was aware of the lateness of the hour; but he was compelled, notwithstanding these disadvantages, to go into the argument, and to reply both to the gentleman from North Carolina and the gentleman from Delaware. Both of those gentlemen had put cases, urged with a great deal of ingenuity, to show that the doctrine for which he contended, viz.: that, in electing a President, the people have a right to instruct their delegates, would operate, in practice, to defeat the election. Sir, said Mr. M'D. if that consequence can be shown to be fairly deducible from the principle I advocate, I will abandon After the vote of each state is ascertained, duplicates it. But I think, that, so far from this being the case, the thereof shall be made out, and, in case any one of the danger exists only in the imagination of the gentlemen persons from whom the choice is to be made, shall rewho urge it. What is the case supposed by the gentle-ceive a majority of the votes given, on any one balloting, man from North Carolina? That there are three candi- by the Representatives of a state, the name of that perdates; and that eight states vote for each of them. son shall be written on each of the duplicates; and, in Well, take that case. The gentlemen say, if the people case the votes so given shall be divided, so that neither

The fourth rule was then read, and adopted as follows: "4th, From the commencement of the balloting, until an election is made, no proposition to adjourn shall be received, unless on the motion of one state, seconded by another state; and the question shall be decided by states. The same rule shall be observed in regard to motion to change the usual hour for the meeting of the House." The fifth rule was then read, in the words following: "5th, In balloting, the following mode shall be observed, to wit:

The Representatives of each state shall be arranged and seated together, beginning with the seat at the right hand of the Speaker's chair, with the members from the state of Maine; thence, proceeding with the members from the states in the order the states are usually named for receiving petitions, around the Hall of the House, until all are seated;

A ballot box shall be provided for each state;

The Representatives of each state shall, in the first instance, ballot among themselves, in order to ascertain the vote of their state, and they may, if necessary, appoint tellers of their ballots;