Mr. MILLS, of Massachusetts, thought that the amendment would operate to a greater extent than was anticipated. All public armed vessels were authorized to suppress pirates wherever they met with them. The amendment would go to prohibit the transportation of specie in public armed vessels altogether. Piracy did not exist in the West Indies alone. By act of Congress, the slave trade was piracy, and slave dealers were pirates; therefore, a vessel on the coast of Africa would be prohibited transporting specie as well as a vessel in the West India seas. The modification suggested by his colleague, (Mr. LLOYD,) would have been more proper than this; for that would have prohibited at once all armed vessels transporting specic.

[Senate.

Were

which had been made; but his (Mr. C's) reasons for not Mr LLOYD, of Md., said, that last session the Senate doubting it was this: those documents had been pre- had passed a bill regulating the transportation of specie, sented to the Senate by the Navy Department, and if and sent it to the other House, but it was not acted on. that Department had not believed in their authenticity They had also passed a bill authorizing the building of they would never have communicated them. What has ten sloops of war, but it had not been acted on. thus been laid before us, said Mr. C. is a convincing they to be told that these sloops of war were necessary reason why piracy has not been suppressed, and it is the for the suppression of piracy, or that they were intended particular reason of my making the motion. The trade exclusively for that object? No; they were necessary of transporting specie must afford great profit to the for our service, and he believed it was enough to authornaval officers who are engaged in it. This temptationize a law to build them, no matter whether they were is such as to draw their attention from subjects of in- connected with the piratical or any other question. He finitely greater importance, and unless it is removed they was very anxious to suppress this transportation of spenever will perform their duty. cie in public armed vessels. It was necessary, as far as regarded the moral and physical force of the Navy, that it should be prohibited, not only in the Gulf of Mexico, but in every part of the world. We were now beginning to feel the ill effects of this system; the squadron sent to the Gulf of Mexico, was useless, from this cause. In the South sea this traffic for such he must call itwas carried on to a greater extent than in any other part, and it would have the same effect in every part of the world-that of impairing the moral and physical force of the Navy. He did not perceive any thing incongruous in making this general provision in the bill for the suppression of piracy; it was as much connected with it as the bill for building ten sloops of war. He believed our naval officers to be the bravest and best on the face of the globe, but, if we placed temptations in their way, which it was not in the power of human nature to resist, we lessened their moral elevation, and lowered that chivalrous character which they ought always to preserve He did not suspect them of sacrificing their duty, but it was necessary to guard them from all those temptations which might induce them to do so. The moment a soldier or officer lost that high principle which ought to characterize a military man, and became a trader in gold and silver, that moment his moral force was destroyed. What danger could result to the interest of this country from regulating the transportation of specie? They would not allow the President to point out where it should be carried. Did they doubt that he would ever refuse to transport the specie of the citizens of America? If they did doubt it, they must suppose he was unmindful of the interest of those citizens. It might be necessary, and in many instances be proper, to transport specie in armed vessels, but let this specie belong to the citizens of America, and not that belonging to foreign powers. If this provision were made, it would redound to the benefit of the commere of the country, and the good of the Navy; and as they could not get this provision in a direct bill, they would be satisfied to procure it otherwise.

The question was then taken on Mr. COBB'S amendment, and lost.

, Mr. CHANDLER moved to amend the section so as to prohibit all public armed vessels whatever from transporting specie, except such as should be specially designated by the President of the United States for the purpose; and he said that he was well satisfied that this traffic prevented piracy from being suppressed. The gentlemen of the Navy would, no doubt, like to make a little profit when they could do it legally, and on some stations the practice was very lucrative. Sometimes one commanding officer would have the benefit, some times another. Some would make more, and some nothing at all, which produced a soreness amongst the gentlemen of the Navy, while it seemed to divert their attention from the real and important object in view; and as long as this practice continued, the service must suffer by it. It should, therefore, be prohibited, except where the President thought it necessary to point out certain vessels to perform that duty.

Mr. HOLMES, of Maine, said he always thought it was necessary to confine legislation to the subject matter before them-they were now providing for the suppression of piracy, and he hoped they would confine themselves to that subject. If they wished to enact a general law for the regulation of the Navy, they ought Mr. LLOYD, of Massachusetts, said, the current was to do so. It was a misfortune, he said, that there was running very strong against the transportation of specie not a naval peace establishment adopted, and he thought in public vessels; but he believed it to be a very useful it was time there was one; but it could not be provided thing. It was not at all a novel principle, but had been for in a bill intended for a different purpose. The want acted upon by Great Britain for ages. She expressly auof such a law had produced all the evils complained of, thorized her naval officers to do it. If abuses crept into and many more; and one principle which ought to be in this system, why were they not remedied? why put this such a law, was that which his colleague had suggested. sweeping restriction on it? He believed it was a thing They had not yet been able to pass a general bill, or to which might be easily regulated. If the President were do any thing more for the regulation of the Navy than required to designate the vessels which were to perform regarded the pay of the sailors; and the pay of the offi- this duty, how could he possibly do it? how could he cers was provided for only by restrictions in the appro- foresee what occurrences might take place, or what priation bill. He regretted these things was not more changes or emergencies happen in the West Indies or specially provided for, but it was not regular to attempt elsewhere? Mr. L. observed there had been a sweeping it in a bill of this sort. If the Legislature confined them- denunciation pronounced against the whole of the naval selves to the object before them, he thought they could officers employed in the West India service. Would the not miss it. With regard to his own amendment, he Senate sanction such a charge as this without properly thought it was a proper one. Some were of opinion he ascertaining the facts on which it was founded? He had gone too far, but others thought he had not gone looked upon it in a very serious light. If the gentleman far enough. He agreed with the gentleman from Mass. would so modify his resolution as to prohibit the transthat the President ought to have the power of designat-portation of specie, except with instructions from the ing the vessels which should be employed, but he could not make the amendment he suggested.

President, he would agree with him. As this charge had been seriously made, this bill should lie on the ta

Senate.]

Suppression of Piracy.

[FEB. 2, 1825.

ble with the amendment, till they could ascertain fleet was to make them carriers of gold and silver for the what were the instructions given by the Secretary of profit of the officers of the Navy. He did not think the the Navy to the officers, as regarded the transporta- amendment would operate, as his friend from Maryland tion of specie, and to what extent the practice had pre- seemed to think it would; if the amendment succeedvailed. ed, the President might authorize all ships to be carriMr. SMITH said he was against the motion made byers, and under such circumstances as he might direct. the gentleman from Maine, (Mr. CHANDLER.) The offi Mr. C. said his object was not to prevent the carrying of cers of the Navy had not, in his opinion, done any thing specie, under any circumstances whatever, but, if it were to draw censure on them; they had acted according to to be carried at all, the Navy ought not to profit by ittheir instructions. [Here Mr. SMITп quoted the instruc- if their pay was not sufficient, he would say, give them tions from the documents on the table.] These, said more, but do not let them depend on individual mer. Mr. S. being the instructions, no possible blame could chants of the United States for their compensation. be attached to the officers of the Navy, for conforming Mr. LLOYD, of Maryland, said, that he had engaged to them. Mr. S. then remarked that we carried on a unexpectedly in the debate. He had certainly been great and increasing trade through Alvarado and Tam- misunderstood if he had been supposed to have said, or pico; the returns were principally in specie, for there intended to have said, any thing disrespectful of the was nothing else to be got there, and it was very unsafe officers of the Navy generally. He believed they were to trust this on board of unarmed vessels. Government inferior to none in respectability; but they were like might direct one vessel, and one only, to transport the other classes of men, and there might be some amongst specie, but, without that protection, it would be very them who were not quite what they ought to be. They dangerous to carry on the trade. Our manufactures, said were not now erecting a tribunal to decide on the merits Mr. S. are preferred to all others in the South American of their naval officers-they were trying now to erect a market, and our merchants had established their agents system for the suppression of piracy, by which they in the interior, to whom they sent their inanufactures for might remove all the obstacles which were stated to sale-the returns were generally in specie; and would them by the President, as existing unfavorable to that they endanger this trade, for fear that the naval officers view. They were told, amongst other things, by the should be drawn away from their employment? He could respectable agent, (Mr. Randall,) that the transporta not understand this. The amendment, as it now stood, tion of specie through the Gulf of Mexico, has been one without any alteration to it, was a very good one. It of the means of preventing the suppression of piracy. might be, Mr. S. said, that the prejudices of education Was the Senate to wait till these officers were tried by prevented him from seeing any harm that could arise Court Martial before it gave credence to the President from ships of war bringing home money from the Paci- of the United States? for, Mr. L. said, he considered the fic. The trade there brought much money into the U. documents being communicated to the Senate, a suffiStates. The instructions forbid the Captains, on that cient proof that the President believed them to be true. coast, from bringing home any money but what belongs This evidence sufficiently proved, that the system of to merchants of the United States. You pass this bill, transporting specie had been destructive to the discisaid Mr. S. and it is an interdict. How are your officers pline of the squadron in that quarter. What, then, were to know of the passage of this bill providing against it? they to do? They were, if possible, to prevent a reor how is the President to designate the vessel that is to currence of that system, and, in so doing, they should not be employed? Large sums of money are there belong-pretend to decide on the guilt or innocence of the of ing to merchants. The agents wish to remit it, but the ficers who have commanded on that station. They were Captain who is there may not, under this amendment, told that it was necessary that this practice should be take it, because he is not the Captain designated. We suppressed: therefore, they ought to pass the amend have a very extensive trade with South America. From ment now proposed. He repeated he meant no reflec the Middle States we supply them with vast quantities tion on the officers of the Navy generally. He was told of flour in particular. They sell their cargoes at Lima. | by his colleague, that, to remove a small evil, a greater Part of the produce of the sale they lay out in copper, one was to be created; that there was a very profitable and the rest they have to send home in specie. But now trade between the United States 2nd the Pacific; that they will be utterly unable to do so, unless the very ves the returns were made in specie, and it was necessary sel the President has designated happens to be on the that our ships should transport this specie. But he would spot. A great evil will arise from this, because the mer- ask him, where any considerable trade was carried on chants will be compelled to send their money home in with these ports, was there a single dollar brought home unarmed vessels. This will be known, and pirates will in public armed vessels? The trade, said Mr. L. was car lay in wait for, and capture them. If our naval officers ried on in unarmed vessels, and, month after month, do now and then make a little money, by bringing home vessels arrived at Baltimore, bringing home large specie, I, said Mr S. shall be very well pleased. Their amounts in specie-and, if this trade could be carried pay is merely a living, and their obtaining a little money on in safety to Baltimore, it could be carried on to any by these means, does harm to nobody. Your trade in the other ports of the Union, without the intervention of Pacific does not suffer by it. The British allow their public armed vessels. Captains, on the station, to make what they can, and they not only bring home money for their own mer chants, but bring it for any other party that will pay them for it. It consequently has become a drug in England. What we forbid, they take. I spoke lately with an of ficer, who informed me that he was requested to bring home a sum of about two millions of dollars, but he dare not do it; and the British did, and received the premium for it. If the officer had been allowed to have done it, he would have made a considerable sum of money, and this quantity of specie would have been introduced into this country, instead of being carried to England. | The proposed amendment, Mr. S. thought, would create a great evil to remedy a small one.

Mr. CHANDLER said he had never, before this time, been given to understand that the object of building a

With regard to the transportation of specie from the Pacific, Mr. L. said, it did not often occur that the public arined vessels brought home much from that part of the world. The money made by transportation did not result from the home trade, but from carrying money from port to port in South America. This traffic, Mr. L. contended, was a violation of the laws of nations; our ships of war were converted into insurance offices; the money of the belligerants was put on board, and our officers received the premiums. This ought certainly to be prohibited. The cupidity of the officers ought not to be suffered to compromise the peace of the nation. Nothing but the weakness of the different powers in that part of the world, had prevented our vessels from being attacked on these very grounds. It England and France were at war, would such a thing be suffered?

Doubtless it would not, and it did not become the dignity of Government to countenance an act towards a weak power, that she would not do towards a stronger one. Supposing that, after this amendment should have passed, a public armed vessel should transport specie, was there any thing in this amendment to prevent it? Till the law reached the Pacific, the commanders of vessels would act under the instructions they already had. If there were any vessel to carry out this law, and the President had time, he would inform the officers there at once, and would designate the vessel which was to bring home the specie, if it brought it to American citizens, and, if he had not time, they would act under the instructions they now had-and no injury would be done to the nation.

In regard to the case cited of the British navy, Mr. L. observed that we had a navy which could stand on its own merits and required no precedent from the British Navy to give it consequence; and we had departed, in many instances, from the practices of the British Navy, many of which were bad enough.

Mr. HAYNE said, that this provision went to make a regulation which would affect the commerce of the United States to a great extent. The object of this bill was to suppress piracy in the West Indies, and any provision might be grafted on it that would tend to as sist that object; they might declare the squadron should not be diverted from that one object; should not be sent to the coast of Africa or to Mexico; they might make any such limitations as those; but, when they undertook to make a general regulation for the commerce and Navy of the United States, they opened a wide field for discussion, and it would be impossible to perceive where it would terminate. At the last session, this very point was determined, that the interest of commerce required that this privilege should not be altogether destroyed-but that it should be regulated; accordingly, it was submitted to a committee, and great attention was bestowed on it; a bill was reported for the regulation of the practice, and all agreed to it; and it was not their fault that this was not now a law. But, if the House said they would now go into the consideration of regulations for the transportation of specie, it would be necessary for them to rise, to move to amend the amendment of the gentleman from Maine, by adding the clauses of the bill of last session. Was the Senate prepared for this? No. It would be better to suffer this bill to depend upon its own merits, and then he would agree with the gentleman on the proposition as related to the transportation of specie. This was a business of much importance to the commercial part of the Union, and he thought at least they ought to confine their deliberations to the object in view, which was the suppression of piracy in the West Indies.

On the question being taken on Mr. CHANDLER'S amendment, it was decided in the negative.

Mr. LLOYD, of Massachusetts, then moved to strike out of the section the words "specially designated," and insert instead, the words in conformity with instruc

tions.

[Senate.

collected together, and a vessel off the port refuse to take it, because she was not the vessel designated. Meanwhile an invading army might come down and carry off the specie, because the vessel designated to take it away, was a hundred miles off, and none other dared to do it.

Mr. HOLMES, of Maine, said, that the President would point out the vessels on the West India station to perform that duty. There were vessels enough for that particular species of service, and the others should not be suffered to engage in it. He did not believe that the merchants were in any danger of losing their money by an insurrection in that quarter. The Senate, he said, were now legislating for the safety of the lives of their fellow-citizens, and to protect them against lawless butchers; and if the President gave general instructions to the fleet, there seemed to be but little danger of those instructions being abused. He esteemed the officers of the navy, but they were but men, and might become wicked, and might become so in proportion to the temptation. With all his affection for the navy, he had some fears that it was not on so good a standing as it was at the close of the last war. He was afraid that, if there were another war, instead of seeking the enemy as they had done before, some would be found, who would be more inclined to act as privateers. Part of our navy was in port, and part employed, and there was scarcely a breeze that blew, but what brought intelligence of discord and disagreement among the officers. One half were engaged in sitting on courts-martial to try the others, and one of high rank was sent for home to answer for his conduct. What is the reason, said Mr. H. that, two years ago, our commerce and sailors were efficiently protected from the depredations of these pirates, and now it cannot be done, though in possession of the same means? You are told by the document on the table, from your respectable agent in Cuba. I think we are bound to believe in it, taken in connexion with the supposition that the same effect is not now produced that was formerly, although the same means are employed. The complaint is made to you, and you are to prescribe the proper remedy, and you are doing it in endeavoring to restrain, in some measure, the evil complained of.

Mr. BARBOUR expressed his regret that the amendment had ever been introduced at all. The attention of the Senate had been drawn off by it from the object in view, which was the bill to suppress piracy, to one which bore altogether a distinct character. Independ ent of any legislative measures on the subject, if information reached the proper department, to whom was imparted the capacity to regulate it, that the naval officers had not been sufficiently attentive to their duty, but had suffered themselves to be seduced from it, it would be their bounden duty to give the necessary instructions to put a stop to such abuses. Mr. B. inquir ed, whether it would not be possible to effect a compromise between the parties, so as to get clear of the general question in any instance, and to confine it to piracy in the West Indies. If, after the word piracy, aforesaid were added, it would get rid of all the difficulties. The effect of this provision would then be limited to the squadron in the West Indies.

Mr. L. said, he did not like to undertake to make remarks, without having evidence before him; but he felt himself compelled to do so, to do away the impression Mr. TAZEWEI.L observed, that there were pirates that might be made by the observation of the gentleman in many other parts of the world besides the West Infrom Maryland, (Mr. LLOYD,) that the public ships were dies. The difference between the object that his colconverted into insurance offices. This would indeed league had in view, and that of the gentleman from Mas be a belligerant measure, and would justify the deten-sachusetts, would best be exhibited by supposing the tion and capture of such ships. His impression was, that it would turn out, that this practice was prohibited by the instructions of the Navy Department, and therefore the allegation would prove unfounded. Mr. L. said, we had lost at one time 100,000 dollars of specie, by there being no vessel at hand to take it way. He inquired how it was possible to point out which should be the vessel? A large quantity of money might be VOL. 1-27

word piracy struck out from the third section, and piracies aforesaid put in its place. There were pirates in many parts. Slave traders were pirates; pirates, there were found also in the East Indies, in the Straits of Sunda, and in the Pacific Ocean. The object of this section was to impose restrictions by law, so that no public armed vessel, engaged in the suppression of piracy, should engage in the transportation of specie. But they

Sen. & H. of R.]

Suppression of Piracy.-Election of President.

wanted no instructions; they had them already; for it was a portion of the duty of every public vessel to suppress pirates, wherever they found them, and there was no better way of assisting commerce than to protect it from the depredations of these freebooters.

The question being on Mr. LLOYD'S motion to strike out the words "specially designated," and insert in conformity with instructions, was decided in the affirmative -ayes 27.

Mr. BARBOUR then moved the amendment he had just before suggested, (limiting the operation of the tion to the West Indies,) and it was agreed to.

[FEB. 2, 1825.

there were, the fewer public vessels would be required to be on the station. It was important in the view of humanity-because, merchant vessels being always armed, would be able to defend themselves wherever they were attacked. They would be competent to destroy all those pirates who were in the habit of sallying out in small boats to commit their depredations.

Mr. LLOYD, of Massachusetts, said that this trade occupied a capital of seven millions of dollars, and that an average of two hundred vessels, comprising one hun sec-dred thousand tons, were employed in it. Granting a privilege to arm would be of no service to the greater part of these vessels, to the many small traders from the ports of North Carolina, &c. because their profits would not admit of it. it was meant that they should defend themselves, this bounty was the only means of enabling them to do it; and if that were not extended to them, they must give up the trade, which would become confined to a few wealthy individuals, who could afford

Mr. PARROTT moved to strike out the words "or any other articles of freight," because public vessels were seldom or never employed in transporting any thing but specie or bullion.

After some conversation, this motion was lost; and then

The question being taken on the section, it was rejected-ayes 18, noes 20.

Mr. SMITH then moved the amendment which he had suggested some days before, and which is as follows: "And be it further enacted, That the Collectors of the several ports of the United States be, and they are here. by, authorized to pay to the owner or owners of any merchant vessel of the United States, which shall clear out for, and bona fide be bound to, any island in the West Indies, north and west of the Island of St. Thomas, or any port in the Gulf of Mexico, north of the state of Colombia, the sum of

to arm.

Mr. SMITH proposed to fill the blank in his amendment with eight hundred dollars, that is, two hundred for each gun.

Mr. EATON observed, that the expense which would be incurred by Government from such a measure, might be greater than they were aware of. The number of ships were two hundred, and if they made only two voyages a year, there would be a drain on the Treasury to the amount of two hundred and forty thousand dollars dollars, for every gun of a cali--a sum almost sufficient to build a handsome frigate. Besides, it might be made a matter of speculation: persons might arm vessels, and when they got their clearance, they would receive the bounty, and were not obliged to go to Cuba. He submitted whether these things were not worthy of some consideration. The Senate then adjourned.

bre not less than four pounds, which may be mounted on board such vessel: Provided, That the owner or own ers shall have furnished for each gun, at least thirty rounds of ammunition, ten boarding pikes, and ten muskets, with at least thirty-six cartridges for each musket, and shall have furnished three men at least, for each gun so mounted: And provided, further, That such payment shall only be made on the report of the Surveyor of the port being produced to the said Collector, that such armament is actually on board such vessel, and such number of men had been engaged for the voyage. "And be it further enacted, That the President be, and he is hereby, authorized to purchase a steamboat, of the largest size, and arm and man the same in such a manner as he may deem proper; and, also, to cause to be built four barges or launches, each to mount a gun on the bow, of a calibre to carry a shot not less than six pounds, and capable of carrying thirty men.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES-SAME DAY.

ELECTION OF PRESIDENT.

On motion of Mr. WRIGHT, of Ohio, the House then resolved itself into a committee of the whole on the state of the Union, and took up the report of the Select Committee appointed to prepare rules to be observed by the House in choosing a President of the United States.

The report was read through, and then

The rules were read and considered separately. On the first rule some conversation took place between Mr. BASSET, of Va. and Mr. WRIGHT, the chairman of the Select Committee. No alteration, however, was made in the rule.

The second rule was then read, and no objections were made to it.

The third rule was read, as follows:

3d. The doors of the Hall shall be closed during the balloting, except against members of the Senate and the officers of the House; and the galleries shall be cleared on the request of the delegation of any one state.

Mr. S. said, he was aware that the proposition which he had made, was, in some degree, opposed to the opinion expressed by the Secretary of the Navy; but, with all the respect he entertained for that gentleman, he must submit that some information had been given to the House which touched the welfare of the nation. He had generally been of opinion that they were a body instituted by the constitution to afford advice and assistance to the Government-that they were mutually useful in assisting each other. The great object of the bill was to destroy piracy. It was the duty of all to aid in the accomplishing of it, and the most effectual mode of Mr. INGHAM, of Pennsylvania, moved to amend this doing it would be to take from the pirates all hope of rule by striking out the last clause, viz: "and the galleprofit. When they found they were constantly resist-ries shall be cleared on the request of the delegation of any ed, and they risked their lives with but little chance of one State." Mr. I. stated that, as a member of the Seplunder, they would seek some more honest mode of lect Committee who had made the present report, he employment. But merchant vessels found it too expen- had, when this rule was brought forward in the commitsive to arm. It consumed the profits of the voyage, tee, objected to that part of it which he now moved to which were never great. The object of this amend- strike out; and he had objected then, as he did now, to ment was to induce them to arm, by assistance from Go- the clause in question, because he apprehended that vernment, and he thought, if the insurance offices were there was no good reason for putting it in the power of to make a distinction between those vessels that were the delegation of a single state, (consisting, in some inarmed and those that were not, it would go far to make stances, of a single individual,) to clear the galleries of them all arm. this House. He could not conceive that there was any need to go into conclave in order to conduct the ap proaching election. It was not a measure involving our relations with foreign nations, but a matter of a purely

Mr. MILLS expressed his approbation of the section that was under consideration. He thought it a matter of economy--because, the more armed merchantmen

FEB. 2, 1825.]

Election of President.

[H. of R.

the representatives of this people, standing on this floor to vote or to debate, are improperly to be controlled, it is in those galleries that the object is to be effected. If ever popular tumult, and a general excitement of national feeling, are to jeopardize the freedom, and endanger the purity, of this body, it is in those galleries that they will shew their power.

domestic character. Yet this rule enforces secrecy, in regard to the transaction, if required even by a single individual, and that in the most obnoxious form. He had rather have the rule made absolute at once, and say that the galleries, as well as the doors of the House, should be closed, than to give authority to the delegation of one state to have them cleared. He was at a loss to account for such a proposition. He supposed that there For his own part, Mr. M'L. said, he thought that, in must be some special reason for granting such a power, so important an act as the choice of the Chief Magistrate but he could not conceive what it was. Was any distrust of this nation, it was fit and becoming that members entertained of the personal safety of members of this should be left to act from the cool dictates of their judg House? Surely, the power of the Speaker over the gal-ment, and that they alone were the judges how they leries would be as great on the contemplated occasion, ought to act. With them, the constitution had entrusted as at the present moment; and the existing rules of the the duty, and there it might be safely trusted. Mr. M'L. House clothed him with full authority to have the gal- said, that he made these remarks from the fullest conleries cleared in case of disorder. Believing that no viction of their truth. He thought that now, in a time good reason existed for the clause in question, he hoped of public tranquillity, a precedent might be set that it would be stricken out. would prove valuable hereafter. He felt great defertablished in this respect. At the election of a President in 1801, this subject had been entrusted to able hands, and, after full deliberation, they had thought it expedient to admit no person as a spectator of the elec tion but members of the Senate and officers of this House, and the election was so conducted.

Mr. McLANE, of Delaware, said, that, when the hon-ence, also, for the precedent that had been already esorable member from Pennsylvania rose, he had been about to offer an amendment to the rule, in conformity with the opinion he had expressed, when in committee: and he should now acquiesce in the amendment which that gentleman had offered, provided the principle on which he himself wished to go, was adopted by the House. He was for clearing the galleries altogether, Mr. BUCHANAN said he rose with diffidence to exwithout leaving it to the delegation of any state to re- press his opinion upon this subject. Like his friend quire that it should be done. In giving his reasons, in from Delaware, (Mr. M'LANE,) he disclaimed the inten favor of this course, he wished it to be distinctly under- tion of making any remark which might have an allusion stood, that any remarks he might make, had no reference, to the peculiar situation of the members of this House, whatever, to the peculiar state of things existing at the in regard to the approaching election. He considered present moment. He thought the question ought to be the present to be a question of great importance, and treated as involving an important precedent, and ought that its decision would establish a precedent, which, in to be considered on principles that were to govern on future times, might have a powerful influence upon the this occasion, and all others; not only now, but hereaf-interests of this country. He was sorry to say he had ter. He felt himself called on by his duty, to state these arrived at a conclusion in direct opposition to that of his principles. He felt, very fully, the responsibility of his friend from Delaware, (Mr. M'LANE.) The reasons situation, and wished to assert the rights which he con- which had led him to that result, he would state to the ceived to pertain to the members of this House, at the House. present moment, while the nation was in a state of calmness and quiet; a time peculiarly favorable for the adoption of rules calculated to provide for a season of great party excitement.

The American people, said Mr. B. have a right to be present and inspect all the proceedings of their repre sentatives, unless their own interest forbids it. In relation to our concerns with foreign Governments, it may become necessary to close our galleries. Our designs, in such cases, might be frustrated, if secrecy were not, for a time, preserved. Whenever there shall be disor der in the gallery, we have also a right to clear it, and are not bound to suffer our proceedings to be interrupted. Except in these cases, he at present could recollect none which would justify the House in excluding the people.

Mr. McLANE asked, Why ought the galleries to be open? Why must this balloting be conducted in public? In electing a President, the members of the House were called to act, not as Representatives of the people, but, as umpires, to do that which the people have tried to do, and have not been able to accomplish. The people have tried to elect a President: they have failed to do so. The House of Representatives are then empowered to choose one for them. This power is not dele- In electing a President of the United States, said Mr. gated to them by their constituents, but by the Consti- B. we are, in my opinion, peculiarly the representatives tution: and, in exercising it, they have no peculiar rela- of the people. On that important occasion we shall, tion to their constituents, and are not responsible to emphatically, represent their majesty. We do not make them, further than every honest man is responsible to his a President for ourselves only, but also for the whole conscience and his country for his public acts. He should people of the United States. They have a right to inconsider the question now presented as a new one, and sist that it shall be done in public. He, therefore, proshould put wholly aside what had at any time been done tested against going into a secret conclave, when the respecting it Who (asked Mr. M'L.) has a right to in- House should decide this all important question. He spect my decision between conflicting claims to the said that the doctrine of the gentleman from Delaware, Presidency? In ordinary cases he granted that the peo- (Mr. M'LANE,) was altogether new to his mind. That ple had a right to look to the acts of their Representa- gentleman has alleged that we are called upon to elect tives, and exercise a sort of inspection over them. Yet, a President, not as the representatives of the people, even this was not always permitted to them by the Con- but by virtue of the constitution. Sir, said Mr. B. who stitution. It provides that, in certain cases, the public created the constitution? Was it not the people of the eye shall be excluded, either when the subject of de- United States? And did they not, by this very instru liberation is of such a nature that an important public ment, delegate to us, as representatives, the power of measure must be frustrated, if prematurely disclosed, or electing a President for them? It is by virtue of this when, from the excited state of public feeling, an im-instrument we hold our seats here. And, if there be any proper influence is apprehended, as endangering the freedom of debate. No such state of feeling existed now, but it not only might exist, and that in an alarming degree, but to such a degree as to become wholly irresistible. If the principle shall once be established, that

case in which we are bound to obey their will, this is peculiarly that one. To them we must be answerable for the proper exercise of this duty.

What are the consequences, said Mr. B. which will result from closing the doors of the gallery? We shall