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JAN. 11, 1825.]

Accounts of the President of the United States.

officer the same measure of justice and comity which was usually accorded to a private claimant under similar circumstances. Without going over an infinity of private claims, in which their merits had been investigated and discussed by select committees, he would allude to two cases at the last session, because they were familiar to the memory of all who heard him. These were the accounts of the Vice President, Mr. Tompkins, and the claims of Major Piatt-cases which would be recollected, as they had challenged a large portion of the interest and sympathy of the House. Nor was it necessary to advert to the reference made to a select committee during the present session, for the purpose of considering the services and sacrifices of a distinguished individual, except it might be for the mere purpose of indulging in the delightful gratification which had been felt among ourselves, and by the country at large, at the manner in which that committee had so nobly discharged their duty.

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red to the Committee of Claims, constantly and oppressively burdened with a superabundance of business, or ought they not rather to be sent to a Committee raised specially for the purpose, who could have time to investigate them fully, notwithstanding their possibly miscellaneous character, and report the facts for an ulterior and future decision of this House, when the distinguished individual to whom they relate, should be beyond the exercise of power and patronage? This was all that he asked, and as little as we could well accord to him. Mr. H. said, in concluding, he had but one remark to make in reply to the observations of the gentleman from New Hampshire, "that select committees were usually partial." He thought this observation was practically obviated by the power which the Speaker had, at least in this case, to make his selection of the committee from the whole House, without the smallest limitation whatsoever, except as to number. The judicious exercise of the power, by the person who now fills the chair, Mr. H. said, that it was a sound rule of practice in was guarantied by the intelligence, firmness, and indethat House, to refer claims of a miscellaneous charac-pendence, which uniformly characterized his conduct. ter to select committees; and, in the present instance, He, therefore, hoped that the gentlemen who had opwhat did the President ask of us? That all his pecu- posed it would perceive the reasonableness of making niary transactions with the Government, spread over a the reference to a select committee, and not to the Comuseful life of upwards of forty years public service,mittee of Claims, both on the grounds of precedent, should be investigated, and even upon the strictest right, and expediency, and would afford to their veneprinciples, if he should be found a debtor, that he might rable Chief Magistrate the same privilege and facilities discharge the consequent obligation, and have the even- which had been yielded to others. ing of his life undisturbed even by the breath of suspicion. That the President was not a mere volunteer in this matter would be obvious, when it was recollected, at the last session, that something had been intimated that at least a portion of his pecuniary transactions, with an agent of the Public, required explanation.

Mr. COCKE, of Tennessee, observed, that it had not been his intention to say a single word on this subject; but it would be recollected that, at the last session, the gentleman from South Carolina had thrown out some insinuations with regard to himself, when some accounts of the President had been alluded to, and great exceptions were taken to the idea of having those accounts investigated. He should not now pursue the same course as to the insinuations referred to. He had, in his hands, evidence in respect to these transactions, which he would not offer to the House, intending to make a dif ferent use of it, which any gentleman was free to examine, and which he believed would remove every erroneous impression in regard to himself, from the mind of every one who did so. As for the subject now before the House, he, for his own part, cared very little to what committee the papers should be sent. The accounts of the Vice President had been referred, he believed, not to a select committee, but to the Committee of Ways and Means-but he might be mistaken.

The gentleman from Delaware had asked what this committee was to investigate, as no specific claims had been stated? Mr. H. said, that he did not pretend to know, from any source of authority, what were the precise extent, nature, and character of the claims in question; but if he had even less information than he really had on the subject, he would at least be disposed to do the Executive the justice to believe, that, when he sent a message founded on their alleged existence, that they not only existed, but were entitled to the respect and attention of this House. He had, however, no objec tion to state, that he had casually learnt that the claims in question were, for services rendered by the President in a diplomatic character abroad, and expenditures incurred in such services; and that, whilst the claims Mr. HAMILTON said he would state, for the informaof other persons had been admitted, precisely of the tion of the House, that he had himself been a member same character, the adjustment of his own had been in- of the Select Committee to whom the accounts of the juriously withheld, immediately after his return from Vice President were referred. They had, indeed, afterEurope. The cause of the delay in their settlement, pri-wards gone to the Committee of Ways and Means, but or to his coming to the Department of State, during the it was merely for a financial purpose. period of his retirement in Virginia, those who knew Mr. A. STEVENSON, of Va. begged to make a sinhim could easily solve, by his habitual disregard for mo- gle suggestion to the House, as to the destination which ney, and from the easy generosity which characterized this subject ought to take. There were but two inquihis efforts in relation to all gains that were personal tories, in his opinion, which it was necessary to make: Was bimself.

there sufficient information now before the House, to But really, Mr. H. said, he presumed that the object enable it to act? and, if so, ought it to be referred; and of every gentleman was the same, a precise ascertain to what committee? It was to these points the attention ment of the facts connected with these claims, and with of the House ought to be directed. Mr. S. said, he did the accounts of the President generally, whilst this indi- not concur in the opinion which he had understood his vidual was at the seat of Government, and would have friend from Delaware (Mr. M'LANE) to express, that the it in his power to furnish both testimony and explana-information now in their possession was insufficient to tion. The President did not ask, but had expressly re-authorize the reference of the subject to the considerapudiated the idea of any decision on the justice of the tion of a committee. He believed the message would claims during the term of his office. All he wished of be found to contain, upon this point, all that could be you was, that, when evidence could be collected without inconvenience, that you should take the proper means of collating it. Indeed, he had all along, even when Secretary of State, or whilst in public office, refrained from pressing a settlement, from a scrupulous delicacy, that was worthy of the highest commendation. The simple question then is, ought these claims to be refer

required. In it, the President tells us, that he has had control over the public moneys, to a vast amount-that he has "long been in the public service, abroad and at home," and that there are matters of account and claims between himself and his country, which are unsettled, and ought to be adjusted. That the cause of the delay. in presenting these claims, shall be explained to the

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Accounts of the President of the United States.

[JAN. 11, 1825.

committee to whom the subject may be referred. Here he had accounts not yet settled, Mr. M'L submitted that then is distinct information, as to the fact of unsettled the proper course would be, for a settlement of these accounts between this officer and the Government. accounts of the President to take place. If there were which not only authorize but require us to act. What any items of his accounts with the Government which other information can be required, at this stage of the could not be settled under existing laws, but which business? Mr. S. thought none. But to what com- had equity for their support, it would be time enough, mittee ought the subject to go? There was, Mr. STE- when that fact was ascertained, for Congress to underVENSON said, no standing committee of the House, whose take to adjust them. Whilst up, Mr. M'LANE said, he duties would embrace the whole subject. These claims would take occasion to express his regret, that this dismight not have arisen in the same character. Those tinguished individual, had thought it necessary for his which relate to his diplomatic character, would belong, reputation-it was certainly not necessary for his repuappropriately, to the Committee on Foreign Relationstation-or for his interest, to take the course he had done those in his individual character, to the Committee of in this matter. Claims, and those as President of the United States, to a Select Committee. Was it expedient or proper to cut up the subject and refer it to three distinct committees, when the whole can be acted upon by one? Mr. S. said, he thought not; and should, therefore, prefer the latter course. Let the whole subject be referred to an intelligent select committee-let the facts be reported, and we shall then be fully competent to apply the rules and principles which ought to govern us in the adjustment of claims against the Government. The President will then stand upon the same ground with every other citizen, who comes here for relief. This had been asked by the President as a matter of sheer justice and right. He had long been in the public service, and was anxious that the evening of his life should be peaceful and undisturbed. So far, Mr. S. said, as this inquiry would be the means of accomplishing this object, it should have his support. He should, therefore, vote for the original proposition of the gentleman from Pennsylvania, (Mr. INGHAM.)

Mr. BUCHANAN, of Pennsylvania, said, that, as to himself, he would rather the President had exhibited his claim before the House in a precise and distinct form, and demanded its payment. He did not conceive it necessary for the character of that distinguished individual, that he should request a general investigation of his pecuniary transactions with the Government. But, said he, that was a proper subject for the exercise of his own discretion; and he has determined otherwise. What, then, is it right, we should do?,

mand it.

A well tried, and a faithful public servant, who, for eight years, has occupied the most distinguished station in this country, thinks it necessary for his reputation, to ask of you a general investigation into all his pecuniary transactions with the Government. He considers that his character in this particular has been unjustly assailed; and, about to retire from office, he wishes it to be placed beyond suspicion before the world. For this purpose he has requested of us to inquire into his public conduct, so fa as it regards his accounts with the Mr. M'LANE, again rose. All that he wished, he Government. Can we, upon any just principle, refuse said, was information as to the nature of the claims al-this request? Certainly not. He has a right to deluded to in the message of the President. He should, he said, cheerfully afford to the President of the United By what committee, then, shall this investigation be States any inquiry he might wish, through a committee made? Gentlemen who think the subject properly beof this House, whether for the settlement of his ac- longs to the committee of claims, have, in my opinion, counts, or to resist any aspersion, founded or unfounded, said Mr. B., taken a view of it much too narrow. It is on his character. His objection to acting on this sub-certain that the message of the President asserts the exject, was to the indefiniteness of the nature of the claim istence of a claim against the government; and if this which had been presented to the House. If, said he, were all which it contained, it would be a proper subthis is a mere matter of account--if the object be only ject of reference to the Committee of Claims. But, it to adjust and settle existing accounts between the Unit- is equally certain, it proceeds much further. It asks an ed States and the President, it is not a subject within investigation of his pecuniary transactions, as a public our province. If it be a matter of claim, founded on servant, during the long series of years to which he has injustice done to him in the settlement of his accounts, been in the employment of the nation. To divide the in which the officers of Government have been govern message and refer a portion of it to one standing comed by strict and rigorous construction of law, but in re-mittee, and a portion to another, as has been suggested, gard to which, there are equitable considerations, which place it fairly before us, then is it properly presented here, and ought to be deliberately examined, &c. Under such circumstances, it would stand on the same footing with other cases which had been referred to as precedents. Mr. M'LANE said, he did not believe, that a case had ever arisen, in which an individual had come to this House to settle his accounts, where no legal obstacle stood in the way of their settlement. If, in the settlement of his public accounts, a balance had been found against Mr. Monroe; or, if items of his account against the Government had been rejected, Mr. M'LANE granted, that it would have been a fair subject to justify the interposition of this House, and he would be willing to give it that direction. If the message really involved a variety of accounts between the Government and Mr. Monroe, then it ought to go to a select committee, for in that case, Mr. M'LANE agreed with the gentleman from Virginia, that the very diversity of those accounts furnished a strong reason why a select committee, embracing the powers of all the committees of the House, should be appointed to take it into consideration. He should like to know, he said, what these accounts were. No balance had been reported against the President, and he was very well satisfied that none could be. But, if

would separate into parts a subject which is, in its nature, entire. Mr. B. therefore, preferred its reference to a select committee which would possess powers sufficient to grasp the whole subject.

Again, said Mr. B., the message seems to have been misunderstood by gentlemen, in regard to another particular. You are not asked to legislate upon it. No money is, at this time, demanded from you. The President would not make such a request, whilst he stands in his present relation to this House. All he asks is, that a committee shall investigate and report to the House the testimony which he may exhibit, together with his own personal explanations. After his term of office shall have expired, he does not wish to leave his retirement for the purpose of attending to this investigation. The message expressly disclaims any view to legislation during the present session: it only asks that such preliminary inquiries may be made as will render his personal attendance hereafter unnecessary. Said Mr. B. business of this peculiar nature certainly does not properly belong to any standing committee of this House. After the testimony shall have been reported, it may be proper, at the next session of Congress, to refer a part of it to one of the standing committees, and a part to another.

Mr. B. concluded by observing, that it would be both

JAN. 11, 1825.]

Accounts of the President of the United States.

unjust and unkind to refuse to the President the appointment of a select committee upon the subject.

Mr. TRIMBLE, of Kentucky, said, he thought that light enough had been thrown upon the subject to enable the House to vote a reference to some committee, standing or select; and it did not appear to him that any further discussion would be useful. There must, of course, be some delicate considerations involved in any matter of account brought up for settlement on the part of the Chief Magistrate. Some members propose to treat it as a claim made by a private citizen-and nothing could be more correct, as a general rule but that did not establish the propriety of referring the case to any of the standing committees. How would it be if a claim was set up against the President for moneys due the Treasury? Would an inquiry moved against him be sent to a standing committee? Certainly not. And why should his demand against the Treasury be treated otherwise than it would be, if it were a demand by the Treasury upon him. Perhaps it was just to say that something in the shape of courtesy was due to the person who claims this inquiry into his accounts. He ought at least to have the facilities of other citizens, and heretofore it had been usual to refer miscellaneous claims of this description to select committees. Standing committees were established by the rules of the House, for convenience, and the despatch of business, but, after 40 years of public service, a request to raise a select committee, and refer the accounts to it, was but a small favor, and probably not more than was due to the House, and the nation, and the claimant, and the station which he fills. The name of the committee would not change the responsibility of the members placed upon it, and there could be no doubt that any select committee would do full justice to the claimant and the nation.

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cient reason for a reference of this subject to a committee, which, from the miscellan ous character of the accounts of the President, ought to be a select committee. What other course, Mr. M. asked, would gentlemen have the President to pursue? Would they have him present himself before an Auditor of his own appointment, and present a claim for settlement? What character would the settlement of such a claim wear to this House? Would not such a course be indiscreet in the President, in reference to his own character? That course, it must be admitted, he could not have taken; and, if not, this was the only other left open to him.

Mr. FARRELLY said, he hoped the message would go to a select committee. Such a reference would only be complying with the wishes of the President as expressed in it, (here Mr. F. quoted the message, and commented on its several clauses.) It was manifest that the subject, if not referred to a select committee, must go to various standing committees of the House, each of which might report a bill. Thus, there might be half a dozen bills before the House at once, and as many different reports. The gentleman from Delaware, (Mr. M'LANE,) wishes to know the nature of claims, and what they are founded on, before he refers them to any committee; but Mr. F. said, the President purposely avoided this, and said that he would disclose the nature of the claims to the committee, when it was appointed. The President also expressly desired that whatever was done, might be done before the session was closed, and he had stated a good reason why he had called on this House, as the only proper and competent tribunal, to pass upon his integrity in the pecuniary trusts which the nation has committed to him. Mr. Monroe had received the highest trust upon earth; and in relinquishing it, he demanded an investigation of his conduct. Shall we not gratify him, said Mr. F.? Is it not an honorable request?Surely; and the proper respect due to it, is the appointment of a select committee to make the investigation.

Mr. INGHAM rose for the purpose of satisfying the gentleman from Delaware. He was able, from inquiry, to assure that gentleman, that no balance existed on the books of the Treasury against the President. It could not be expected, from his situation, as having brought forward the present motion, that he should press for the appointment of a select committee. He would, however, make one remark on what the gentleman from New Hampshire (Mr. BARTLETT) had said, in relation to improper bias operating on select committees. The remark must either have relation to the honorable Speaker, (whose duty it would be to appoint the committee,) or to himself. But the Speaker could not be alluded to; his conduct, in the discharge of the duties of the chair, was notoriously such as to forbid such a thought: it must then be himself, to whom the gentleman alluded. But, Mr. I. said, he would assure that gentleman, that he was as independent, in the discharge of his duties, as a Representative of this floor, as the gentleman himself; and he thought it was too much, for any one member of the House to assume the guardianship of the independence of all the other members. For one, he could not suffer the exercise of such guardianship, as respected himself.

Mr. MERCER again rose, and said, that, the President having deferred an exposition of the nature of his claims until the appointment of a committee on the subject, it seemed to be due to him, on the part of those who might be in possession of any information on the subject, to withhold it. But, after what had been said, he might be excused both by the House and the President, for referring to facts which came to his knowledge twelve or fourteen years ago, long before Mr. MONROE became President, the statement of which might serve to remove the only objection which had been seriously urged to an investigation of the subject of the message. Mr. M. here gave a brief statement of the rendition, by Mr. MONROE, of his accounts for settlement, after his return from his diplomatic service in Europe-of the settlement of them being deferred, &c. You very well know, said Mr. M. (addressing the chair, then temporarily occupied by Mr. P. P. BARBOUR,) how unwilling the state which we represent has been at all times to present any claims of hers to this House-how sensitive every individual Representative of that State on this floor has been in preventing the presentation of the claim of that commonwealth for interest on money advanced by her for the use of the United States during the late war, and that for five or six years it has been kept back, from that consideration alone. The very same motive must have influenced Mr. MONROE in refraining from presenting to the then President, an inhabitant of his own state, a disputed account for settlement. I know, said Mr. M. that this consideration alone prevented him from doing it. -Some time afterwards, Mr. Mercer said, in a list of persons reported to Congress as indebted to the government, had appeared the name of James Monroe, as indebted some $80,000. In a wretched state of health, he had immediately mounted his horse and come hither from his residence in Albermarle county. He presented his vouchers, and his accounts were settled, and a balance found due to him, although a large amount of his account against the United States yet remained suspend. * By custotu of the House, the person moving such a Comed. That, Mr. M. hoped, would be considered a suffi-mittee, is, himself, usually put at the head of it.-[EDITORS,

Mr. REYNOLDS observed, that the gentleman from Pennsylvania, (Mr. BUCHANAN,) had told the House much about the faithful services of the President for forty years, &c. All this, Mr. R. said, was well enough known. But the question was, whether there was any thing on the face of this document which required the appointment of any committee at all? Is this House, asked Mr. R. constantly to be interrupted for every squib that may be thrown, in the House or out of it, at the conduct of the President? He believed, for his own part,

VOL. I.-12.

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Accounts of the President of the United States.

that that distinguished individual stood just as high, this day, in the opinion of his fellow citizens, as if there had never a squib been thrown at him at all. If the President would come, and, in plain language tell the House he had a claim against the government, he, for one, would vote for an examination of it--but he really had been unable, with all the lights derived from the document before the House, to discover what the President really wants, unless from the expression that he will never sign a bill in his own favor. This was all that there was in the message which shewed that he had any claim at all. He could assure his friend from Kentucky, (Mr. TRIMBLE,) that he had himself no wish to be one of the compurgators of the President. He believed, for his part, that the whole message had been occasioned by some remarks which had been dropped in this House last session-but, as to himself, those remarks passed over him like an April shower, which leaves no trace or effect behind it. He did not believe a word of them.

[JAN. 11, 1825.

been treated. Considered as a common application to the justice of the country, it had yet been animadverted upon with more strictness than any common application had before received. Yet it was no common address, whether the person, the occasion, or the object, were considered. It came from a man venerable for his years, respected for his services, now filling, and having long filled, with honor to his country, the first office in it; it came from the President of the United States, addressed to the Representatives of the people he had served. His object was to obtain an investigation of suggestions which had been made, not in the public papers, but on the floor of that House; and the application was made at a moment selected by the most scrupulous delicacy, when his retirement from his high station precluded the most distant idea of official influence. Can it be said that this is a common application, and should be treated with no more attention than the claim for the settlement of a disputed account? The Presidential office was a co-ordi Mr. BARTLETT rose, with a desire to remove from nate branch of the Government, equal in importance, if the mind of the gentleman from Pennsylvania, (Mr. ING- not in power, with this House. The official character of HAM,) an impression which he had incorrectly taken up, the functionary who filled it, (the individual, as he had that his former remarks had a personal allusion-he dis- been called in debate,) was a public concern, and he claimed every thing like it-he had had not the least re-had a right, and the public had an interest, to have that ference, either to the distinguished officer who presides character cleared from all shadow of suspicion that might over the House, or to the gentleman from Pennsylvania; have been thrown on it. It was just, too, that that innor did he entertain a shadow of suspicion as to the investigation should now be made; before it, would have dependence and integrity of any special committee of been liable to ungenerous suspicions of official influthis House. What he had said, in relation to favoritism, ence: at any future period, it would have the effect of respected only such a prepossession in favor of the jus- dragging him from his honorable retirement, and subtice of a claim as inclined a person to look with rather verting that repose which his services had earned and more favor on evidence in its support than on that of an his age required. opposite nature-and he wished to avoid all imputation For my own part, said Mr. L. I consider that my digof even such a favoritism in the present case, for the pur-nity, as a Representative of the People, is not injured by pose of rendering the precedent to be established in this case, more perfect.

Mr. FORSYTH said that the President was entitled to justice from the government. As to the manner how it shall be awarded to him, that was the concern of this House. As to the present claim, this House, Mr. F. said, will never pass upon it while he holds his present exalted station. Mr. F. professed himself in favor of the appointment of a select committee upon the message, but was desirous to limit its powers-and with that view, if the message were to be referred to a select committee, he should move the following instructions:

giving a more respectful attention to such an application than I would to that of an ordinary applicant: both are entitled to justice; but there is a courtesy duc from one branch of the Government to the suggestions of another, the practice of which will neither interfere with the duty nor the dignity of the House. After all, sir, what is proposed? A reference to a select committee, required by the complex nature of the investigation, and granted on many such mere questionable occasions to individual applications. Is this asking too much? Is it much to ask that a few days of the time of a few members should be employed in procuring evidence to de"With instructions to receive from the President any termine whether the Chief Magistrate of the Union, in evidences or explanations of his claims which he may the exercise of his high office, had managed with fidethink proper to present, and to file the same in the oflity the pecuniary concerns that were confided to him? fice of the Clerk of this House, to be acted upon at the next session of Congress."

The question was first taken on referring the Message to the Committee of Claims, and decided in the negative, by a large majority.

The question then recurring on Mr. INGHAM'S motion to refer it to a select committee, and the question being upon agreeing to the instructions moved by Mr. FORSYTH

Mr. LIVINGSTON said, that the purport of the message seemed to be misunderstood by many gentlemen for whom he had the highest respect, and by whose opinions, on other occasions, he had sometimes formed his own. By some it had been considered a demand for an unliquidated pecuniary claim; by others it was treated as if it were an unjustifiable attempt to use the influence of high official station, in order to command the attention of the House, and obtain a favorable settlement of doubtful accounts; while other gentlemen professed a total want of ability to discover the object.

Is it much to ask that, after he has retired from office, he may be prepared with materials for silencing any aspersions that may be cast upon his character? So far from thinking this unreasonable, Mr. L. said, he should think it a useful practice at the end of every Presidency to institute a similar inquiry, which might detect mismanagement, or silence calumny. He would, therefore, vote for the reference to a select committee, as the most respectful, the most efficient, and most prompt mode of disposing of the message.

Mr. HAMILTON, of South Carolina, expressed a hope that those gentlemen who were in favor of a select committee, would also vote for the instructions moved by the gentleman from Georgia, as they went, in his opinion, to attain precisely the object desired by the Presi dent.

Mr. LIVERMORE, of New Hampshire, rose and said, that he was opposed to the instructions. As he understood them, they amounted to this, that the committee was to hear what the President had to communicate, and There is something, said Mr. L. not only so just, but report it to this House, and there was to be an end of so peculiarly delicate and touching, as well in the mat-the business. This, he thought, would be far short of ter of this application as in its manner, connected with what the President asked He wishes a settlement of the period at which it is made, that it made a lively im- his accounts. What inconvenience could result from pression on my feelings, and forces me to express some leaving the committee free and unshackled? The thing astonishment and concern at the manner in which it has had been done again and again, as well at this session

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as at every other. He cited the instance of the Beaumarchais claim, that of Vice President Tompkins, and the recent case of Gen. Lafayette. Why should not the same course be pursued in the present case? He was for hanging no clogs about the committee.

Mr. MERCER, of Virginia, entertained the same sentiments with the honorable member from New Hampshire. He could not think it was proper to embarrass the committee with the instructions proposed by the gentleman from Georgia.

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The question being taken on this motion, it was lost, 41 members only rising in its favor.

Mr. ELLIS, of Pa. called for a second reading of the instructions proposed by Mr. FORSYTH, and they were read accordingly.

Mr. ELLIS then observed that he must dissent, and felt bound to oppose instructing the committee in this manner. He thought it would be confining the duties of the committee to too narrow limits. Their duty would be little more than a clerkship—a new agency to receive testimony. The President was already amply able to communicate to this House, through the Speaker, any papers he wished to lay before it; and, if the committee was appointed with the instructions proposed it would come to little more. Mr. E. said he felt a real pleasure in meeting the President in the most respectful manner he could, and he would submit his claims, whatever they might be, to a select committee. He could confide in the integrity, ability, and general knowledge of business, of the members of this House, and he hoped that no instructions would be given to the committee. Let us meet the President, said he, with an expression of warm and kind feelings.

Chancery to take evidence. Let the committee present the case submitted to them in the form of a report to this House.

Mr. MANGUM, of North Carolina, then rose, and expressed a hope that every remark which he might feel it his duty to make, would be taken as they were meant, in a spirit of perfect veneration for the distinguished individual from whom this message came. Though he had no design to be deficient in respect, it might happen, from his ignorance of etiquette, that he would appear so. Yet he must say, that, to him, this appear ed to be one of the strangest applications that ever was made to Congress. It might be considered as presumption in him to say any thing in relation to its delicacy. The President was certainly the best judge of what was delicate, in his own case. But he should say, consulting his own judgment, that an application like this was in- Mr. HAMILTON then moved an amendment to the delicate; and he hoped he should not be held deficient instructions, to the following effect: "That the commitin respect, when he said that he could not feel sorry tee report the explanation and evidence submitted by should this claim not be treated in a manner different the President to the House during the session.” Mr. H. from common claims. What, asked Mr. M., is the ob- said he thought that such instructions would be perfectject to be accomplished by the proposed investigation? | ly conformable with the wishes of the Executive. He Is it to repel calumny? He had been in the habit of con- agreed with the gentleman from Georgia in the opinion sidering the character of that individual as too high for that no investigation should take place which might, by the breath of slander to reach it. Mr. M. asked whether the remotest possibility, be supposed to be conducted it was consistent with the dignity of this House to under- under Presidential influence; yet he did not think it take the defence of a public officer, however indignant would be respectful, either to the President or this they might feel at charges falsely preferred against him? House, that the committee should file the evidence he Was it consistent with their duty as Legislators, to con- might lay before them in the Clerk's office. Such a distitute themselves into what the gentleman from Ten-rection was like the instructions given to a Master in nessee (Mr. REYNOLDS) had very properly called a body of Compurgators? Was this House to be erected into a tribunal for the trial of questions of honor? He hoped not. It was with pleasure he believed that this investi- Mr. FORSYTH hoped that the amendment of the gation was utterly unnecessary to repel aspersions, or gentleman from South Carolina would not be adopted. ward off attacks upon the Chief Magistrate. His long It would, in effect, be the same as giving no instructions life, spent in the service of his country, spoke for itself. at all, and would leave the matter just where it was. It And though his character, like the sun, might not be with- was obvious that the President felt the delicacy which out spots, Mr. M. said it was not his office to point them applied to the case. He feels, said Mr. F. that this out, unless his duty compelled him. He thought that House will never pass a bill, either on an old or a new the appointment of this committee would not merely be account, so long as he remains President of the United descending far beneath the duty of the members of this States. Whence does this feeling arise? From his reHouse, as Legislators, but would be doing so, as a gratulative situation to this House and its members. He is itous act, when circumstances did not call for it. If the the source of patronage and power. He cannot indeed President's demand was a mere matter of claim, what punish members of this House if they refuse to pass a sincerity was there in the boast which we heard from bill; but he can reward them if they do pass it. He feels Maine to Louisiana, about equal rights, if one question the delicacy of his relation to this House, and shall we of mere, naked, abstract right, was to be preferred to not feel it too? No, sir; he is not a mere common claimanother? In questions of that kind, he said he knew no ant; and while I would give him every facility to lay the difference between the President of the United States evidence of his claims before this House, I would do noand the humblest cottager-both had the same claim on thing more. We are as liable to the imputation of being the justice of this House, and he would let the claims of under his influence in presenting a favorable report of both take the same direction. If there was any differ- the facts of his case, as we would be in granting money ence, the claim of the President, from his higher stand- to satisfy his claim. Gentlemen only want an explanaing, should undergo the stricter scrutiny. For himself, tion of his claim, and the evidence to support it. Then Mr. M. believed that the claims, in the present case, why seek such a form of investigation as may bring an imwould be investigated with equal justice by one as by putation on our own purity? The President feels this, and another committee. The President, in his message, had we ought to feel it. He asks, first, that the purity of his said that he would not sign any bill in his own favor. We own conduct, while in office, respecting the disburseare told, said Mr. M. that there is no balance against ment of moneys, may be publicly ascertained. This rehim. The balance, then, must be the other way, and ferred merely to the receipt of his own salary, and to the we are to take inceptive measures, which are to be car- disbursement of a very small fund placed under his conried to maturity at a future session. Mr. M. said he trol for contingent expenses, &c. There was no indelithought it would be more proper that further light should cacy in such an investigation; he has a perfect right to be given upon this subject, than to call on the House demand it; and it is an investigation which may not be to act upon it in its present state of uncertainty. And, refused in the face of this nation. But, in the second under this impression, he moved to lay the message on place, the President asks that, while he remains here, the table. he may have an opportunity to show and to explain the

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