in the Army and was engineer Commissioner and he has been called into Ohio to become a city manager. Colonel Sherrill started the tourist camps in the District of Columbia.

The speaker just now, speaking of the natives of the District of Columbia, many of the natives of the District of Columbia vote in other States. They are deeply interested in the District, but until they can vote here they cannot give up the vote in other States. My children vote elsewhere. I vote elsewhere.

There was quite considerable opposition to the appointment of some judges, but no attention was paid to our protests.

You personally are trying to do something nice for the District. Our resolution is against your bill because we are holding to our ideal. My first appearance before a congressional committee was just 40 years ago. There was quite some nice bills, and one of the gentleman said, "Mrs. Johnson, that is your ideal; you stick to it."

Now, the federation is holding to its ideal, and if you will help us in that ideal it will be the nicest thing you ever did.

The CHAIRMAN. What is your ideal?

Mrs. JOHNSON. National representation. Mrs. Wright will present the resolution and the reasons therefor Tuesday morning.

The CHAIRMAN. Assuming now that you finally get national representation, you get the right to vote for President and Vice President, and you get Representatives in the House and Senate-that would be national representation-would you still say you should not have a vote in your own local government?

Mrs. JOHNSON. No; I would not say that, but a vote in the local government is no use to us until we have the other.

The CHAIRMAN. Is not the vote in the local government of any importance in things that touch you most closely?

Mrs. JOHNSON. No, sir; the vote in the Nation touches me most closely.

The CHAIRMAN. My thought was the vote in my State touches the people of my State more closely than does national representation. The closer you get Government to the individual the more you touch him. The Government that does not touch him closely interests him very little, if at all. You are a taxpayer in the District of Columbia. Would you like to have a voice in selecting those who spend your taxes? You are interested in the institutions of the District of Columbia. You had a matter of that nature presented to you here and you have not seen one-hundredth of it. There is a picture, if you could see it, that is revolting, in one of your institutions, but all you can do is hold up your hands in holy horror and say, "Isn't it terrible?"

Mrs. JOHNSON. The head of that institution saved my life and he needs money and you cannot do things unless you can get help. The CHAIRMAN. You cannot help him by employing more supervisory help.

Mrs. JOHNSON. I am speaking of general help, labor.

The CHAIRMAN. That is true; but I used that as an illustration to show if the people of the District had the vote, such a condition as that arising in Gallinger Hospital could not exist, because you would say to your Commissioners, "Clean that thing up." This committee has no authority to do so. We tried to do something. What little we did was to bring it out to public view, but we have no authority.

Mrs. JOHNSON. I went before the House District Committee and asked that they be given more money.

The CHAIRMAN. My dear lady, you could lay out a million dollars in that institution and if it was conducted as it had been, it would not change it one iota.

Mrs. JOHNSON. The local vote, if we do not have national representation, will be useless. I believe in both.

The CHAIRMAN. You believe in the local vote and the national vote. Mrs. JOHNSON. It would need to include national representation with it, and I think if you would enlarge your bill to give us national representation as well as local, you will be giving us a perfectly fine bill.

The CHAIRMAN. My hands are entirely tied on that, because it would require a constitutional amendment.

Mrs. JOHNSON. Mrs. Wright will bring forward our resolution Tuesday with the reasons therefor.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you.

We still have 15 minutes remaining. I will devote that to hearing from anyone who cares to be heard.

STATEMENT OF B. M. SEIBOLD, WASHINGTON, D. C.

Mr. SEIBOLD. I am a citizen of Maryland. I have lived in the District from 1892.

The CHAIRMAN. You live in the District now?

Mr. SEIBOLD. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You vote in Maryland?

Mr. SEIBOLD. I vote in Maryland.

The CHAIRMAN. Proceed.

Mr. SEIBOLD. Gentlemen of the committee, I fail to see any real facts having been laid before you that would bring out the truth in this matter and establish the true standing of the inhabitants in this controversy. Nothing but ideas, mostly based upon erroneous conception, showing lack of proper understanding of the true situation in the matter.

It does not matter whether the District has a commission or any other form of government, Congress will always have the final say, which obviously excludes the inhabitants from any governing power. It does not matter what the intent of those so-ballyhooed founding fathers of the Constitution had in mind, we know that their primary intent was to rob the people of all powers of any real consequences to them. They undoubtedly have taken their cue from the barons of England, who succeeded in fooling the people that helped them to wrest for themselves more powers from the King.

In this our founding fathers also succeeded through their ambiguous Constitution, which they framed, which made possible its violations. There is nothing in them of primary importance to the people that has not been violated, which makes them a mere scrap of paper.

What is of utmost importance is the intent of the people who accepted them and whose instrument it really is and they most surely would never have accepted them had they understood them and realized the framers' intent.

I, too, have ideas about a form of government which may be as good, or as bad, as those laid before you. I have one idea which I must mention, and that is that the management of a government of, by, and for the people ought to be conducted honestly. I think everybody will agree to that.

I shall not bother you with my other ideas, but lay before you honestly indisputable facts, which you will not and cannot, as statesmen, ignore. You may not enjoy very much what I have to say, but my duty as a citizen calls for telling the truth, which sometimes hurts. I have no intent of hurting anyone's feelings; I am only interested in the general welfare of my country and its people, and I ask you to pay close attention to what I have to say, and beg you not to interfere until I have finished.

Gentlemen of the committee, the bill before you for consideration does not alter nor improve the political nor the financial status of the inhabitants of the District of Columbia, nor will it, to any appreciable extent, relieve the Congress of the United States from its burden of legislating for this District.

The bill as it stands does not give the so-called home rule to the inhabitants of the District, but recognizes the Congress of the United States as the real governing body for the District, which is perfectly proper.

We must remember that this District did not come into existence through the Constitution of the United States; they merely authorized its creation, nor was it created by law. Its creator was a compact, derived by understanding between the legislators of the States which were to cede their respective territory under Federal jurisdiction, and the inhabitants of the territory ceded, on the one side, and the Congress of the United States, on the other.

In this compact, certain conditions were laid down by the legislators of these States to which Congress had to agree. This was done by the act of June 16, 1790, by which act the Congress of the United States accepted these conditions, and the compact was then completed.

One of these conditions was that it shall be pursuant to the tenor and effect of the eighth section of the first article of the Constitution of the Government of the United States. The seventeenth clause of the eighth section, first article of the Constitution, puts only one condition upon the States and its inhabitants that were to be ceded, in these words:

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever over such District as may, by cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States.

What does this mean? Nothing more nor less than that Congress shall be the only power to make any laws in this District, in other words, to exercise the police power.

To this the States and the inhabitants of the District agreed and by it the inhabitants relinquished their citizenship in State, city, and township, and accepted Congress as their only lawmaking power. Of course this bill is not violating the Constitution, as Congress still retains full legislative power over the District. But it is mischievous, it is misleading, inasmuch as it creates the false belief in the minds of the great majority of the inhabitants that they have a saying in the governing of the District, which, obviously, they have not."

This bill will be of no benefit to the inhabitants of the District, but may help Congress in continuing the swindle it has perpetrated upon the inhabitants of the District ever since 1802, by which, through fraudulent means, it made the inhabitants of the District pay the expenses for its upkeep, which the Federal Government was in duty bound to pay under the compact of 1790.

This bill, instead of bringing out the truth, creates misunderstanding and accomplishes nothing except to keep in existence a crime, which surely is not an honorable act.

For these reasons, I most earnestly protest the enactment of it into law. I implore you, gentlemen, set your own house in order before you are called upon to help rule the world, or the world may find itself in the sad predicament with the leadership of United States politicians, so truly expressed by a Member of the Senate.

To do this, you must start right here in the Nation's home, make a contract what it is and ought to be, binding on all parties. Remember that this contract was made in good faith, with your own people. To take advantage of the ignorance of the inhabitants of the District is not democratic, not honest, but most deceitful and dishonest, which cannot bear wholesome fruit.

The District of Columbia is, without a doubt, the most deceitful and fraudulent governed community in the United States and it is governed by the Congress of United States.

I especially appeal to the Senators and Members of the House from the State of Maryland, whose duty it is to see to it that the contract made between their State and the Federal Government be rightfully enforced. I hereby call upon everyone to oppose this bill and not permit a veil to be drawn over this crime to hide it under false pretenses, because that is all the good this bill will accomplish.

I fully realize the grave charges; they are made willfully and deliberately, and no honest statesman will ignore them and let them stand unchallenged.

If the Congress or the Committee on the District of Columbia desires. to be relieved of some of its work in legislating for the District, it can find relief by giving the inhabitants full representation in the House of Representatives, to which they are entitled without an amendment to the Constitution or a grant from Congress.

All that is legally required is for Congress to provide the machinery to set in motion the election. Being represented by one, two, or perhaps more, and with these Members put on the Committee on the District of Columbia, undoubtedly some relief will come to that committee, as well as to Congress. I am equally ready to prove this as I am ready to prove my charges.

Senator McCarran erred when he says that nothing short of a constitutional amendment would make possible a State form of government. A State form of government is not desired by the inhabitants of the District-only by a few who have lordly ambitions.

Secondly, even a constitutional amendment would not extinguish the contract between the States and the Federal Government, provided the people hold a contract a sacred obligation, and not a mere scrap of paper. Here is some of the evidence of the crime: These people's property is taken from them and sold by the Commissioners for a debt they never owed and with the sanction of the Congress. Is this justice?

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, sir.

Now, we will resume on Tuesday morning. We are in hopes those who still care to be heard will come forward that day. If there are those who wish to be heard after that, we will accommodate them so that they may be heard. We will try to take our time and try to accommodate anyone.

The last witness-do you represent any group?

Mr. SEIBOLD. To tell you the truth

The CHAIRMAN. I know you are telling the truth.

Mr. SEIBOLD. I represent part of the ignoramuses that are not represented here.

The CHAIRMAN. We will adjourn until 10:30 on Tuesday. We express our gratitude to those who came here. We do not mind being criticized and called names, as long as we have the matter in the open.

I am glad to have the opportunity to express the gratitude of the chairman of this committee, especially to the Senators who have been able to sit in with the chairman and attend these hearings, and it is especially gratifying to the chairman to have sitting in with him at nearly all of these hearings, the Senator from Ohio, Mr. Burton. His wide and extended experience as the mayor of a great city, and his knowledge of municipal law, have been and will be of great assistance in the consideration of this matter in its various phases, and I am exceedingly gratified that he has seen fit to give us so much of his time to sit in with us.

That goes for other members of the committee who have given us as much time as they could. I know what their duties are. I have had to absent myself from a number of other committees to carry on this hearing, but I think that it is really worth it.

Thank you very much.

(Whereupon, at 1:30 p. m., the committee adjourned to reconvene at 10:30 a. m., Tuesday, December 21, 1943.)