Mr. RESNICK. I have just one question. Basically your statement corroborates what we heard yesterday and I am sure we will hear more on this subject.

I yield to the gentleman from Minnesota.

Mr. ZWACH. Mr. Chairman, just one brief statement. I presume that your reference here, that education seems to be defeating its purpose by causing damaging tension, is perhaps the fact that they insist on English being taught in the schools of New Mexico?

Mr. GARCIA. Yes, sir. This is part of it. There is a movementMr. ZWACH. Could I say this to you, my parents were immigrants and when I started school I could not speak a word of English. Yet, in less than a year, I was speaking the language. And I grew up—I am a German-but I grew up in a Scandinavian community and many of the parents spoke a very rough English. They were Scandinavian immigrants, first generation, wonderful people, but their children are now the third generation. They do not even know Norwegian. They speak English-all they know is English.

What interests me it seems to me one of the problems that you actually have if they are going to be in America and I think that is wonderful to be able to speak Spanish-my daughter majored in Spanish and studied in Mexico which I love but one of the things, it seems to me, they are going to have to do is learn English, and I would think that if we are going to go on generation after generation and try not to learn English, that we are never going to get into the stream of America. Do not the young people now speak English!

Mr. GARCIA. Yes, they do. However, most often they speak neither language well and they are illiterate for this reason. It is a patois. It is a, shall I call it, mixture of both languages, knowing neither well, and, of course, the most desirable case could be for these people to learn both languages if they choose to retain Spanish which they de facto do but, of course, as I say, attempts to teach them good English are not adequate as far as I can see.

Mr. RESNICK. I would point out to my distinguished colleague that these people were not immigrants. They were here first and the Anglos came in.

Mr. ZWACH. Yes.

Mr. RESNICK. This is the difference. Your parents and my parents came over from Europe and we knew we were coming to America and that English was the language.

We assumed that you descended from the original settlers. This again comes back to the basic problem, that the original settlers were there and they have been taken advantage of, oppressed, and a foreign language has been imposed upon them.

Mr. ZWACH. Could I say to the distinguished chairman that the Spanish are also immigrants to the shores of the New World at different times.

Mr. RESNICK. I would imagine-according to previous testimony, these people were there for 200, 250 years.

Mr. ZWACH. Yes. Many of them.

Mr. RESNICK. This is the problem. I agree with you. We have the same problem with New York City where the Puerto Ricans are keeping the language alive and they can because they come back and

forth from Puerto Rico. Your people knew when they came out to Minnesota they were there to stay. There were no jet airplanes. And, these people are simply boxed in.

Mr. ZwACH. Yes. My parents knew why they came to America and have appreciated it ever since.

Mr. RESNICK. Mr. Goodling?

Mr. GOODLING. You spoke about grazing and grazing permits. That they are now causing a lot of tension and trouble. Is there anybody from the Forest Service or from any service that can communicate with these people and tell them that by overgrazing they are defeating their own purpose? They apparently do not appreciate that. Is there any means of communication with these people?

Mr. GARCIA.. We are attempting to set up communications between the Forest Service and these people. I have attended many meetings to this effect. However, very often this is not the only problem. Grazing is not the only problem. Sometimes it has to do with contracting and subcontracting where the people feel that outsiders keep getting these contracts because they are more sophisticated in their technology and their equipment, et cetera. And, at times it would also seem that the people feel that jobs are given to Anglos preferably or to those among their own who are Anglicized and acculturated, and who speak better English, and that tests are given so that only those who have been acculturated into the Anglo culture will be given preference or will be able to pass the tests. This is how the people feel.

Mr. GOODLING. Is most of this grazing land owned by the State or Federal Government?

Mr. GARCIA. I believe that the main bone of contention right now is with the Federal Government.

Mr. GOODLING. That is all.

Mr. RESNICK. Thank you very much.

Mr. GARCIA. Thank you.

Mr. RESNICK. Our next witness will be Mr. Tomas Atencio, assistant director for program development and evaluation, Colorado Migrant Council, Boulder, Colo.

STATEMENT OF TOMAS ATENCIO, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FOR PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT AND EVALUATION, COLORADO MIGRANT COUNCIL, BOULDER, COLO.

Mr. RESNICK. I hope I pronounced that correctly.

Mr. ATENCIO. That is right.

First, I wish to thank Congressman Resnick and the committee for the opportunity to testify before this committee. Since three and a half months ago I have been a resident of Colorado. Prior to that time I lived in Rio Arriba County, N. Mex., and I worked as a social worker and community mental health worker, so I will address my remarks to the issues of community development, community mental health, and social service.

The problems of rural America in the Southwest unquestionably affect two distinct minority groups, the American Indian and the American of Hispanic background. The latter is the focus of attention in this statement, and is also known as Spanish American and Mexican American.