"The Deputation.-We are convinced, Sir James, by long and painful sufferings, which have induced us to search deeply into and ponder often on the working and tendencies of the present mode of using machinery, that unless a different direction be given its mighty capabilities, it will become the destroyer of those who so misuse it; and not only the destroyer of them, but also of the working classes, whose fate is now, in a certain sense, in their hands. Glut after glut, panic after panic, has visited us of late years, the period between each progressively lessening, and each finding us still less able to bear it than its predecessor. The humble comforts of the operatives' cottage have disappeared. The middle classes of tradesmen, who depend upon the lower classes, are in all but an insolvent state, and trade is concentrated in the hands of a few overgrown capitalists, in Such is the state of our consequence of the inability of smaller capitalists to contend with them. towns at the present moment. We have given you our reasons for believing that the increase of our foreign trade under the present system would permanently increase neither wages nor profits, nor arrest their downward tendencies; and we leave to you the consideration of these reasons.

"Sir J. Graham, who throughout the interview had appeared to take a deep interest in the subject, said that the views of the deputation were certainly startling, and deserving of serious attention; and that one thing was certain, that we must lay aside the notion that we could ever again become the workshop of the world.' In 1815 the case was different. Then we were almost exclusively possessed of machinery; since then other nations had rapidly advanced in this particular, and were manufacturing for themselves. For this and other reasons, it was manifestly impossible that we could ever again command the markets of the world, as we once had done.

The Deputation then pressed more particularly upon Sir James Graham the moral aspects of the questions involved in the passing of a Ten Hours' Bill, the extent to which the present system produced ignorance, a want of domestic comfort and economy, a disruption of family ties, and, consequently, both reckless and vicious conduct. The deputation mentioned many particular instances of the working of the system, which strongly confirmed the general premises laid down, to all which Sir James Graham gave an attentive hearing. As, however, those portions of the subject have already been treated of in the report of the interview with Sir Robert Peel, it is unnecessary to go over them again.

1

In the course of the interview the Deputation had drawn attention to the fact that the selfacting machinery and the double-deckers,' introduced of late years into the cotton districts, had thrown out of employ a great number of adult labourers. These alterations had been carried to such an extent in Manchester, as to reduce the number of spinners from 2,000 in the year 1830, to 600 in the year 1841; in the short space of eleven years, that prodigious alteration had been effected, chiefly by the introduction of self-acting machinery, and double, treble, and quadruple deckers.

"Sir J. Graham said,- Why, you complain of labourers being out of employ, and yet a few years ago the manufacturers were advertising for labourers to be sent down into those parts of the country.'

Deputation.-True, Sir James; but that was connected with a contract made between the Gregs and Ashworths and the Poor Law Commissioners, the purport of which was to reduce wages in the manufacturing districts. The effect was twofold. This migration system assisted the Commissioners in carrying out the New Poor Law in the agricultural districts, and it enabled the manufacturers to lower and keep down wages. This keeping down of wages was so clearly the great object of the manufacturers in many parts of the country, and the additional hands were in many places so utterly uncalled for by any real extension of the demand for labour, that it is a fact, and it is one, Sir James, which we are most anxious to press upon your attention.-that in very many instances, where new families were taken on by the manufacturers, an equal number of the older families and hands were dismissed to make room for them.'

After a long and very interesting conversation, of which this report will give but an imperfect idea, Sir James Graham said,— You will not expect that I should give any distinct pledge as to the course which the Government may take on the subject you have brought before us in such a temperate spirit, and in support of which you have argued with equal intelligence and good feeling. All I can say is that, in common with my colleagues, I am most desirous to adopt any measure which may have the effect of introducing and maintaining prosperity among our fellow-countrymen; and you may rest assured that we will use our best exertions, and give our most careful considera. tion to any measures which seem to us calculated to effect that primary and paramount object. I am obliged to you, gentlemen, for your kindness in calling upon me, and for the information and pleasure you have afforded me, and will only had, that it will always be the duty of the Government to receive such deputacions from the working-classes, and to listen to their statements attentively, ay, and respectfully.'

"At the conclusion, the deputation pressed upon the attention of Sir James Graham the same

ulterior measures which they had suggested to the Premier, and again disavowed all party feeling, their object being to unite the wise and moderate of all parties, and through the medium of the constituted authorities, to carry such measures as would tend to promote the welfare of all classes of the community. The deputation then withdrew.

"Of the Home Secretary it may be remarked, that while his treatment of the deputation was unexceptionable throughout, while there was no want of expressions of politeness and cordiality en his part, upon the whole, the impression produced upon the deputation was less favourable than in the previous case. Sir James Graham seems to us to have drunk too deeply at the fount of the Malthusian philosophy (which has inflicted so much evil on this country) to be able to get rid entirely of its influence; and though, while putting forward the arguments of that school, he repeatedly cautioned the deputation against supposing that he was uttering his own sentiments, the deputation think that there is reason to apprehend, from the earnestness of manner which he displayed in arguing, and the importance he seemed to attach to those opinions, that the dogmas of that school continue to exercise a considerable influence over his mind,"

Interviews with Lord Wharncliffe, Lord-president of the Council, and Mr. W. E. Gladstone, Vice-president of the Board of Trade.

"On leaving the Home Office, the deputation, accompanied by Mr. William Beckett, proceeded to the office of the Board of Trade, for the purpose of waiting upon the Right Hon. W. E. Gladstone, its Vice-president. This gentleman was unable to grant an interview that day, but appointed the following day, at 3 o'clock. Mr. Beckettt promised to meet the deputation at that hour.

“On the following morning application was made to Lord Wharncliffe, President of the Council, to know when it would please him to grant an interview; and he, learning that we were to see Mr. Gladstone in the afternoon, kindly agreed to meet us at the same time. Accordingly, at the hour stated, the deputation had an interview with Lord Wharncliffe and Mr. Gladstone.

"As in former cases, the deputation proceeded to explain the nature of the measure which they advocated, and the economical and moral reasons upon which they based their claim.

"Lord Wharncliffe testified, from his own knowledge, to the fact that the statements thus presented as to the physical, the domestic, and the mental and moral condition of the factory workers, were not in the slightest degree exaggerated. His Lordship expressed his deep sympathy with the manufacturing population, and his desire for an amelioration of their condition.

"Mr. Gladstone appeared to take an earnest and absorbing interest in those portions of our statement which had reference to the educational, the domestic, and the moral and religious statistics of the subject, and paid particular attention to the proposed restriction, of which Sir Robert Peel seemed to doubt the practicability-namely, that which would limit the employment of female labour Mr. Gladstone treated this subject in a very able and practical manner. Agreeing in all the deputation stated as to the evil effects, both on individual character and on the domestic condition of families, which resulted from the present mode of substituting female for adult male labour, he asked. What practical measures would you suggest to make such a clause as you propose generally operative? The deputation, in their replies to this question, were rather aided by Mr. Gladstone than otherwise; and it was ultimately suggested that the object might be effected by means of three regulations:-First, by fixing a higher age for the commencement of infant female labour, than for the commencement of infant male labour in factories. Secondly, by limiting the number of females in proportion to the number of males in any one factory. Thirdly, by forbidding a female to work in a factory after her marriage, and during the lifetime of her husband. It will be seen that these suggestions meet the case put by Sir Robert Peel, and at the same time obviate the objections taken.

The working of the present Factory Act was also very fully canvassed, and the unwieldly and impracticable nature of its provisions illustrated by facts well known to all conversant with the subject. The deputation, while on this part of the subject, stated, in the first place, that the shorttime committees and the friends of the factory labourer had been no parties to that measure (the act of 1833); that they had seen from the beginning that it would not work, and they were thoroughly convinced that it had been adopted more as a means of evading, than satisfying the demand for the due regulation of the labour in factories. With respect to the education, for which it professes to make provision, it was notorious, that in most cases its provision had either been entirely evaded, or that what instruction had been given had been imparted under circumstances which made it a mockery both as to quality and quantity; and one instance in particular was adduced, in which the stoker of a steam-engine had been constituted the schoolmaster, and the fire-hole had, been made the school-room. The inducements which the act held out to parents to allege that their children were of the full age required, when they knew that the facts were otherwise, and also to medical men to certify that the children appeared to be so, were also pointed out, and numerous instances were brought forward to show that this was very commonly the case. With respect to the inspectors, the deputation stated that it appeared to them that they would be unnecessary with such

a bill as that proposed; and that experience had shown they were, in the majority of instances, rather a means of enabling the masters to evade the provisions of the bill than otherwise, by giving the idea of an efficient superintendence, when, in consequence of the many motives which operated to make the inspectors take the side of the capitalist rather than that of the labourer, infringements of the law were frequent, the rich offenders either escaping with entire impunity, or being punished by such a trifling pecuniary penalty as to operate but slightly, if at all. in deterring the employer, in consequence of the profit which he could realize even with the drawback of much larger fine.

"Mr. Gladstone inquired whether the deputation wished to abolish inspectorships altogether? To which the deputation replied, that they thought, with such a bill as they proposed, there would not be much necessity for them; and they also thought their abolition would remove a great source of irritation and annoyance in respect of the masters; for it was with them chiefly, and seldom with the operatives, that the inspectors came in contact. In fact, they were as a sort of spies upon the employers, which the deputation thought might be dispensed with if a bill of the nature indicated were passed into a law; for if the master or other directing person were fiable, like the poor man, to be committed to the treadmill for an infraction of its provisions, and the common informer were restored to his former position, there would be very few infringements of the law.

"Lord Wharncliffe and Mr. Gladstone both expressed their deep sympathy with the condition of the manufacturing classes, and in the course of a long and friendly conversation gave utterance to many truly benevolent and enlightened opinions.

"After the ten hours' measure had been very fully canvassed in its various bearings, the deputation took the liberty of laying before his Lordship and Mr. Gladstone (as they had done with Sir R. Peel) their views as to the imperative necessity of passing it in connexion with an alteration of the Poor Law, in accordance with the dictates of humanity and justice, and as an instalment of good measures to the working classes. These were matters about which the deputation thought there should be no delay, as upon them an immense mass of evidence had already been accumulated, But while considering those points, about which the mind of the Government ought to be immediately made up, there were other points, as the deputation had already stated to the Premier and Home Secretary, of vast importance to the prosperity of the country, on which the deputation thought that Parliament might collect valuable information; and therefore, though it was going beyond their instructions, the deputation took upon themselves to suggest and press for the appointment of a committee of inquiry into the causes of the present distress of the country, as arising from sources not likely to be reached by alterations in the Poor Law or the Factory Act, the committee to consist of moderate and well-informed men of all parties.

"Lord Wharncliffe asked whether the masters were not generally opposed to the views advocated by the deputation in reference to the Ten Hours' Bill! To which it was replied, that the masters were now in many instances becoming convinced, by dear-bought experience, that these views were correct; that a ten hours' restriction would be the only means of saving them as well as their work-people from utter destruction. His Lordship said, that he supposed that might be the case with the smaller manufacturers, but such instances of approval of the Ten' Hours Bill, he thought, were rare among the more wealthy and extensive capitalists. The Deputation stated that as a general rule that might be so, but that many of the large employers were now coming round to the same opinions. In corroboration of that statement the deputy from Huddersfield mentioned the names of several of the most extensive and influential mill-owners of that diistrict, with whom his Lordship was well acquainted.

“Mr. Gladstone, at the termination of a most friendly and encouraging interview, expressed himself highly gratified with the conversation, and said that it was impossible to direct the attention of Government to subjects of graver importance than those which the deputation had brought before Lord Wharncliffe and himself. You may,' said he, rest assured that I will devote iny best attention to them, in conjunction with the Cabinet, and with an carnest desire to discover and adopt those measures which may be best calculated to put a stop to the evils you have described. Where we may happen to differ, I feel a confidence (considering the candour, moderation, and intelligence which have characterised your representations) that our motives and opinions will receive from you a fair and liberal construction. But, indeed, it is not fair to assume that we do or shall differ, for the evils are palpable, demand immediate reniedy, and your claims are just and reasonable. The spirit and tendency of your views are alike rational and conciliatory.'

Lord Wharncliffe, at the request of the deputation, readily, and in the kindest manner, gave a letter of introduction to his Grace the Duke of Buckingham, upon whom the deputation next proposed

to wait.

The deputation then took leave, after expressing their high sense of the kindness and courtesy with which the lord and the right hon. gentlemen had treated them.

"The impression left on the minds of all the members of the deputation by the bearing of Mr. Gladstone was of the most favourable description, and gave rise to hopes of a cheering nature as to the ultimate results of their labours, and the intention of the Government, both with reference to the Ten Hours' Bill, and also to other measures deeply affecting the operative classes. And of Lord Wharncliffe the deputation have to report, that he rendered them very valuable assistance by corroborating several of their strongest statements from his own personal knowledge of the manufacturing districts.

(To be continued.)

"GEORGE A. FLEMING.
"JOSHUA HOBSON.
"JOHN LEECH.

"TITUS S. BROOKE.
"MARK CRABTREE."

Printed by V. Torras & Co., 7, Palace Row, New Road.

THE

FLEET PAPERS.

LONDON: PUBLISHED BY

JOHN PAVEY, 47, HOLYWELL STREET, STRAND,

AND

BENJAMIN STEILL, 20, PATERNOSTER ROW.

THESE Papers are principally intended for the perusal of the friends of Christianity and the Constitution; particularly the Clergy and the Aristocracy, and of all persons who are possessed of Property. The object of the writer will be to explain the reason for the present alarming state of English society, and the consequent insecurity of life and property; also, to offer some remarks upon the folly and wickedness of attempting to uphold our Institutions, particularly that of Private Property, by the unconstitutional means of Centralization, Commissioning, Espionage, and Force; finally, to state his own views on the best mode of restoring Peace, Contentment, Security, and Prosperity, to every rank of the people of England.

The author is perfectly aware of the fact, that every Parliamentary leader is now only attempting to legislate for the present moment-putting off the evil day -making laws" from haud to mouth," in the hope that some unforeseen, fortunate event may enable succeeding Statesmen to legislate for permanency. He is also convinced that there is a mode of successfully re-establishing our Institutions upon their original foundation-Christianity;-and that that is the only way to preserve them from the encroachments of political partisans, who are now paving the way to universal Ruin, Anarchy, and Despotism.

THE TEN HOURS' FACTORY QUESTION.

(Concluded from the last Number.)
(No. 4.)

Interview with his Grace the Duke of Buckingham, Lord Privy Seal.

"On presenting Lord Wharncliffe's letter at the residence of the Duke of Buckingham in Pall-mall, at a late hour in the afternoon, his Grace appointed the following morning for an interview. At the time fixed the deputation were in attendance, and were immediately conducted to his Grace, who was in readiness to receive them, which he did in the most affable and friendly manner.

"As on former occasions, the deputation proceeded to explain their views on the question of the Ten Hours' Bill in its various aspects very fully. To their statements his Grace paid the most marked attention. He spoke with evident pleasure of the interview which the Lancashire deputation had had with him a short time previous, and showed that their representations were well remembered by him. The general condition of the workingclasses in the manufacturing districts; the influence of the factory system in producing that condition; and the past, present, and probable effects of machinery, were amply explained and discussed, together with the results that would be likely to follow from free trade, in connexion with the existing system. The necessity for the extensive adoption of a systematic plan of home colonization was also laid before his Grace, who said, in reply to the representations on these various heads, I wish such sound views as you have just now

expressed were oftener advocated in the House of Commons.' He added. Whether as holding a situation as a member of the Government, or in my private capacity, you may command my services. With respect to the Ten Hours' Bill, I am with you entirely; and indeed in this matter I shall act with my friend and your friend, Lord Ashley, who has so long and earnestly laboured in this cause. Those labours have made him fully acquainted with the subject in all its bearings, and I cannot do better than act with him in reference to it. Whatever he may resolve upon, in connexion with yourselves, shall receive my hearty support; and I shall at all times be happy to receive any communications from you, and to forward, to the utmost of my power. the object you have in view.'

"The Deputation expressed their high gratification at these frank avowals of sympathy and friendship on the part of his Grace, and asked, whether he thought it advisable for them to see any other members of the Cabinet? To which he replied, Certainly; I should advise you to see all who are in town-Lord Rippon, the Lord Chancellor, Lord Stanley: I do not know how their engagements stand, but there is to be a Cabinet Council this afternoon, when I shall mention the matter, and communicate the result to you in writing. If I can be of any service to you, I shall be most happy."

The Deputation then withdrew, after an interview of nearly an hour, very much delighted with the frank and truly courteous reception which they had experienced from his Grace.

(No. 5.)

"GEORGE A. FLEMING.

"JOSHUA HOBSON.
"JOHN LEACH.

"MARK CRABTREE.

"TITUS S. BROOKE."

Interview with the Lord Chancellor Lyndhurst.

"On the same evening (Saturday, the of October) the Duke of Buckingham sent a note, stating that the Lord Chancellor would receive the deputation on the following Monday, at his residence in George-street, Hanover-square, at 1 o'clock; and that Lord Stanley would see the deputation at the Colonial Office on the same day at 2 o'clock, together with the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Lord Rippon had left town immediately after the Council broke up; and it was not considered advisable to seek an interview with the Duke of Wellington, as, on the evening of the same day, the fire had occured at the Tower, and it was judged that his Grace, as Lord High Constable, would be too much engaged to afford time to receive the deputation.

"In accordance with the written intimation thus promptly and kindly conveyed to them, the deputation attended at the Lord Chancellor's at the time appointed, and were shown into a waiting-room, where a number of persons were assembled, apparently also waiting his Lordship's convenience. The deputation had not, however, been in attendance there more than a minute or two, when a gentleman, whom, from his remaining in the room during the subsequent interview, the deputation concluded to be his Lordship's private secretary, desired them to walk up stairs, and ushered them into another apartment. The gentleman alluded to then inquired, whether we were pressed for time, as the Lord Chancellor was at that moment particularly engaged with counsel, upon an important case; to which it was replied, that as far as regarded the time of the deputation as individuals, they were entirely at his Lordship's service, but that they had an engagement with Lord Stanley in an hour, and if the conversation with the Lord Chancellor should last any time, it might cause a failure in that engagement. The gentleman said that he would state this fact to the Lord Chancellor, and left the room for that purpose. In a few minutes he returned, accompanied by his Lordship.

(The Deputation have been thus minute in relating what would otherwise be unimportant circumstances, simply because they are desirous of doing full justice to the courtesy and attention which they uniformly experienced, as representing considerable portions of the working classes.") The conversation which ensued with Lord Lyndhurst took a similar course to that which the deputation had had with Lord Wharucliffe and Mr. Gladstone. His Lordship displayed great readiness in comprehending the extent, the nature, and the effects of the proposed measure; in analyzing its leading enactments, and in tracing their probable consequences, in reference both to individual and also to national interests. He subjected the deputation to a close examination as to the working of the present act, inquired minutely into the general condition of the population in the manufacturing districts, and the leading causes which had contributed to produce the deplorable results stated, more especially with reference to the working of the Poor Law and machinery. His Lordship appeared to be favourably impressed with the arguments, facts, and details by which the deputation supported their views on the matter immediately under discussion (the Ten Hours' Bill), and those other more extended measures which they took the liberty of submitting for his Lordship's consideration. As, however, the conversation presented no essentially new topic as compared with those of which the deputation have already given an outline, it is unnecessary to go into detail on the present occasion. The interview lasted nearly an hour, and at its close the Lord Chancellor said, that the deputation might depend upon his giving the subject a full and sym. pathizing consideration in conjunction with the rest of the Cabinet. He added, that he had been strongly impressed by the importance and necessity of the case during the very gratifying conversation which had taken place; and he was delighted to see that this amicable mode of bringing their grievances before the Government was adopted by the working classes. Great mutual benefit would result from such friendly and temperate communications. The deputation might rest assured that the subject would receive that attention which its importance deserved; and he again begged to express the gratification he had received from their visit.'