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Ireland. They belong to the papists, therefore throw them to them. Watts. You would have us use nothing that the papists used. Then should we use no churches, seeing the papists used them. Hawkins. Churches are necessary to keep our bodies from the rain; but copes and surplices are superstitious and idolatrous. - White. Christ did cast the buyers and sellers, and their wares, out of the temple, yet was not the temple overthrown. Bishop. Things not forbidden of God, may be used for the sake of order and obedience. This is according to the judgment of the learned Bullinger. We, therefore, desire you to be conformable. Smith. What if I can shew you Bullinger against Bullinger, in this thing 2 Bishop. I think you cannot, Smith. Smith. Yes, that I can. Bishop. Though we differ from other reformed churches, in rites and ceremonies, we agree with them in the substance of doctrine. Hawkins. Yes, but we should follow the truth in all things. Christ saith, “Go ye, therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost; teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you.” But you have brought the gospel and its ordinances into bondage to the ceremonies of antichrist; and you defend idolatry and papistry... You have mingled your own inventions with every ordinance of Christ. How do you address godfathers and godmothers in baptism 2 atts. Oh! a wise reason. Bishop. How say you of the church at Geneva? They communicate with wafer cakes, which you are so much against. Nixson. Yes, but they do not compel any to receive it so and in no other way. Bishop. Yes, in their parish churches. White. The English congregation, while residing there, did minister the sacrament with loaf bread. Bishop. Because they were of another language. White. It is good to follow the best example. But we must follow them only as they follow Christ. Dean. All the learned men in Europe are against you. Watts. You will believe no man. - Smith. Yes, we reverence the learned at Geneva, and
in all other places. Yet we build not our faith and religion upon them. Bishop. Will you be judged by the learned at Geneva: They are against you. Hawkins. We will be judged by the word of God, which shall judge us all at the last day, and is, therefore, sufficient to judge us now. But how can they be against us, seeing they know not of our doings : Bishop. Here is a letter from Geneva; and they are against you and your doings, in going from us. They tremble at your cause. Hawkins. The place is against you. For they tremble at your case, and the case of the prince; because, by your severities, you drive us to a separation against our wills. Bishop. Then you enter into judgment against us. Hawkins. No ; we judge not. But we know the letter well enough; for we have it in our houses. It maketh nothing against us. Bishop. We grant it doth not. Yet they account the apparel, in its own nature, indifferent, and not impious and wicked; and, therefore, counsel preachers not to give up their functions, or leave their flocks, for these things. Hawkins. But it is said, in the same letter, “ that ministers should give up their ministry, rather than be compelled to subscribe unto the allowance of such things.” Nixson. Let us answer to your first question. Bishop. Say on, Nixson. Nixson. We do not refuse you for preaching the word of God; but because you have tied the ceremonies of antichrist to your ministry, and set them before it, seeing no man may preach or minister the sacraments without them. Before you used this compulsion, all was quiet. r Bishop. So you are against things indifferent, which for the sake of order and obedience may be borne with. Mayor. Well, good people, I wish you would wisely consider these things, and be obedient to the queen's good laws; that you may live quietly, and have liberty. ... I am sorry that you are troubled; but I am an officer under my prince, and therefore blame not me. The queen hath not established these garments and other things, for the sake of any holiness in them, only for civil order and comeliness; and because she would have ministers known from other men, as aldermen are known by their tippets, judges by their red gowns, and noblemen's servants by their liveries. Therefore, you will do well to take heed and obey,
Hawkins. Philip Melancthon, upon Romans xiv. hath these words: “When the opinion of holiness, or merit, or necessity, is put to things indifferent, they darken the light of the gospel, and ought always to be taken away.” Bishop. These things are not commanded as necessary in the church. Hawkins. You have made them necessary, and that many a poor man doth feel. Nixson. As you say, my lord, that the alderman is known by his tippet, even as by this apparel were the masspriests known from other men. Dean. What a great matter you make of it! Hawkins. The apostle Paul would not be like the false apostles in any such things; therefore the apostle is against Ou. Bishop. There were good men and good martyrs, who, in the days of King Edward, did wear these things. Do you condemn them : Nixson. We condemn them not. We would go forward to perfection. The best of them who maintained the habits, did recant at their death: as did Dr. Ridley, bishop of London, and Dr. Taylor. Ridley did acknowledge his fault to Hooper, and when they would have put the apparel upon him, he said it was abominable and too fond for a vice in a play." Bishop. Do you find that in the Book of Martyrs 2 Hawkins. It may be shewed from the book of the “Monuments of the Church,” that many who were burned in the time of Queen Mary, died for standing against popery, as we do now. Bishop. I have said mass. I am sorry for it. Ireland. But you go still like one of the mass-priests. Bishop. You saw me wear a cope or surplice in St. Paul's. I had rather minister without them, only for the sake of order and obedience to my prince. Nixson. Your garments, as they are now used, are accursed. Bishop. Where do you find them forbidden in scripture? Nixson. Where is the mass forbidden in the scriptures 2 Bishop. The mass is forbidden in scripture thus:—It was thought meritorious. It took away free justification. It was made an idol : and idolatry is forbidden in the scriptures. Hawkins. By the same argument, I will prove your garments to be forbidden in the scriptures. In Psalm cxxxviii. it is said, that “ God hath magnified his word above all his name.” And 2 Cor. x. it is said, “The weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringeth into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.” But you have brought the word of God into captivity to the pope's garments and his canon law. Therefore they are forbidden in the scriptures. “And,” says Christ, “ that which is highly esteemed amongst men, is abomination in the sight of God.” Luke xvi. White. Reprove what we hold, and prove what you would have us to observe, by the scriptures, and we will yield to you. But if you cannot do this, why do you persecute us. Bishop. You are not obedient to the prince. Dean. Doth not St. Peter say, “Be obedient unto every ordinance of man P’’ White. Yes, so far as their ordinances are according to the will of God. Nixson. It hath always been the practice of popish bishops, when they could not defend their cause by scripture, to make the mayor and aldermen their servants and butchers, to execute punishment. But you, my lord, seeing you have heard and seen our cause, will take good advertisement concerning the same. Mayor. How irreverently you speak before my lords and us, in making such a comparison 1 Bishop. Have we not a godly prince : Or, is she evil? White. What the answer to that question is, the fruits do shew. Bowland. Yes, the servants of God are persecuted under her. Bishop. Mark this, my lord. Hawkins. The prophet may answer this question. “Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge, who eat up my people as they eat bread 2’” Dean. Do we hold any heresy 2 Do we deny any article of faith ? Do we maintain purgatory or pilgrimage 2 No; we hold the reformation that was promoted in the days of King Edward. White. You build much upon the time of King Edward. And though it was the best time of reformation, all was confined to one prescript order of service, patched together out of the popish mattins, even-song, and mass-book; and no dicipline, according to the word of God, might be brought into the church. Nixson. Yet they never made a law, that none should preach, nor administer the sacraments, without the garments, as you have done. Hawkins. It can never be proved, that the ceremonies of antichrist, and the pope's canon law, are clean to christians. For the apostle saith, there is no fellowship between Christ and Belial, and light and darkness. Dean. All the learned are against you. White. I delivered a book to Justice Harris, containin the order which we hold. Reprove the same by the wor of God, and we will renounce it altogether. Bishop. We cannot reprove it. But to gather yourselves together disorderly, and to trouble the quiet of the realm, against the will of the prince, we like not. White. We hold nothing that is not warranted by the word of God. Hawkins. That which we do, we do in obedience to the command of God. “Now, I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences, contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned, and avoid them.” Dean. Yes; but what you hold is disorderly, and against the authority of the prince. Hawkins. That which is according to the word of God is truth, whoever holds it; unless you make the truth of God subject to the authority of the prince. It were better for us never to have been born, than to suffer the word of God to be defaced by the pleasure of princes. Bishop. All the learned are against you. Will you be tried by them? White. We will be tried by the word of God, by which we shall all be judged at the last day. go." But who will you have to be judge of the word of 2 Hawkins. That was the cavil of the papists, in the time of Queen Mary. I have myself heard them say, when the truth was defended by the word of God, “Who shall judge
* What is here observed relative to the worthy reformers, is abundantly confirmed by the concurrent testimony of our historians. For’s Acts and Monuments of Martyrs, vol. iii. p. 143, 168, 172, 427.-Heylin's Hist, of Rafor, part i. p. 93.--Prince's Chron. Hist, vol. i. p. 217.