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Thursday, 21st May, 1908.

MEMBERS PRESENT :
Sir EDwARD SAssoon in the Chair.

Mr. Robert Pearce. Mr. Holt.
Mr. Pirie. Sir Walter Nugent.
Mr. Thomas Frederick Richards.

The Lord Avebury, attending by permission of the House of Lords, and Mr. Robert Turnbull were examined.

Mr. John F. S. Gooday was recalled and further examined.
Mr. H. T. Holdrom and Mr. Arthur Lee were examined.

[Adjourned till Tuesday next, at Eleven o’clock.

Tuesday, 26th May, 1908.

MEMBERS PRESENT :
Sir EDwARD SAssoon in the Chair.

Mr. Robert Pearce. Mr. Thomas Frederick Richards.
Mr. Pirie. Mr. Holt.

Dr. Roberson Day, Admiral the Hon. Sir Edmund Fremantle, G.C.B., Mr. St. John Winne, Mr. Frank Hope-Jones and Mr. Alfred John Martin were examined.

[Adjourned till Thursday next, at Eleven o’clock.

Thursday, 28th May, 1908.

MEMBERS PRESENT :
Sir Edward SAssoon in the Chair.

Mr. Holt. Mr. Robert Pearce.
Mr. Pirie. -

Sir George Livesey, Mr. Stanley Machin, Mr. E. Satterthwaite, Mr. J. J. Crosfield, Mr. Ernest Grindley, Mr. Sam Fay, Mr. Alexander Nichol, Mr. John Joseph Bexfield Campling, and Mr. R. B. Brook-Greaves were examined.

[Adjourned till Tuesday next, at Eleven o’clock.

Tuesday, 2nd June, 1908.

MEMBERS PRESENT :
Sir Edward SAssoon in the Chair.

Mr. Holt. Mr. Thomas Frederick Richards.
Mr. Robert Pearce.

Mr. T. E. Hubbard, Sir William Ramsay, K.C.B., Mr. Gilbert Bartholamew, and Mr. Leon Harold Lee

were examined. Mr. William Willett was recalled and further examined. [Adjourned till Tuesday, June 16, at Eleven o'clock.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE DAYLIGHT SAVING BILL. vii
Tuesday, 16th June, 1908.

MEMBERS PRESENT .
Sir EDwARD SAssoon in the Chair.

Mr. Holt. Mr. Robert Pearce.
Mr. Pirie. Mr. Thomas Frederick Richards.

Mr. Edward Satterthwaite was recalled and further examined.

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Mr. P. J. Hemelryk, Mr. Charles Dukinfield, Mr. J. A. Johnston, and the Rev. E. de M. Rudolf were examined.

[Adjourned till Thursday next, at Eleven o’clock.

Thursday, 18th June, 1908.

MEMBERS PRESENT .
Sir EdwaRD SAssoon in the Chair.

Mr. Holt. Mr. Thomas Frederick Richards.
Colonel Philipps. Mr. Pirie.
Mr. Robert Pearce.

Mr. H. Babington Smith, C.B., Sir William Christie, K.C.B., Astronomer Royal, and Dr. W. N. Shaw, F.R.S., were examined.

[Adjourned till Tuesday next, at Eleven o’clock.

Tuesday, 23rd June, 1908.

MEMBERS PRESENT .
Sir EDwARD SAssoon in the Chair.

Mr. Holt. Colonel Philipps.
Mr. Robert Pearce. Mr. Thomas Frederick Richards.

Mr. W. A. Appleton was examined.

Room cleared.

DRAFT SPECIAL REPORT, proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read the first time as follows:–

1. That the Committee have met and considered the said Bill, and have examined numerous Witnesses, records and papers, and have directed the said Bill to be reported to the House with amendments.

(And the Committee have directed the Minutes of Evidence with an Appendix to be laid before the House.)

2. And the Committee find that the object proposed to be accomplished by the Bill is to promote the earlier use of daylight during certain months, viz., from April to September in each year. And that such object is desirable and would benefit large classes of the community if it can be attained, and that all the evidence submitted to the Committee agrees with and supports this view, though differing as to the mode of accomplishing it.

3. The paramount advantage the Committee find to be the use of daylight instead of artificial light during the months named. -

The effect of the proposals of the Bill during the months named would be :—
(1) To shift the usual hours of work and leisure nearer to sunrise.
(2) To promote the greater use of daylight for recreative purposes of all kinds.
(3) To secure the earlier closing of licensed houses.
(4) To facilitate the drilling of territorial forces.

(5) To benefit the general health and welfare of all such classes of the community as could avail themselves of the proposals.

And the Committee find that some classes of workers, such as agriculturists, gardeners, sailors and others whose work is already regulated by daylight, and miners and others whose work is regulated by shifts or other such conditions, would remain unaffected by and unprejudiced by the proposals in the Bill if passed into law.

4. The Committee have invited objections to the proposals contained in the Bill, and such as have been made appear in the Evidence, and may be summarised as follows:–

Objections to the Bill altogether or to particular proposals in it.
As to objections that the Bill is unnecessary or undesirable.
On these the Committee agree that the objects proposed cannot be attained without legislation.

And that a single Act affecting the measurement of time is better than an Act affecting all the times prescribed by various Acts, by laws and other rules for the conduct of civil business.

And that the interference with European traffic is inappreciable compared with the general benefit.

And that the interference with American traffic can be obviated without serious difficulty by the adherence of those markets to their present hours, and foregoing the advantages of the Bill.

As to objections to the particular proposals, viz.:—That the creation of four short hours of 40 minutes in April and four long hours of 80 minutes in September would occasion undue public inconvenience and too much resulting interference with the ordinary measurement of time in those months by clocks and watches. The Committee considered these objections and various proposals for obviating or minimising the admitted difficulties, such as reducing the alterations either to—

(1) Three short hours of 30 minutes each and three long hours of 90 minutes; or

(2) A single alteration by omitting one hour on the last Sunday in April and inserting an additional hour in the first Sunday in September; or

(3) Only one alteration once for all by omitting one hour on the last Sunday in April, and so adopting Berlin civil time for all civic purposes in Great Britain but not in Ireland.

5. The Committee agree that this last proposal is eminently undesirable, and for the sake of unanimity and simplicity and general public convenience, the Committee find that the omission of one hour in April and the insertion of an additional hour in September is the best mode of attaining the object of the Bill.

6. And the Committee find that the most convenient hour to omit in April is the hour between two and three in the morning of the last Sunday in that month, and that the most convenient way of omitting it is to make the hour from two to three consist of two hours of 30 minutes each, and that the most convenient way of inserting an additional hour in September is to call that hour the September hour and insert it at the end of the second hour of the morning of the first Sunday in September.

And the Committee amended the Bill accordingly.

7. And the Committee find there is no serious practical difficulty in adjusting clocks and watches to these seasonal changes.

Interference with Greenwich mean time for the purposes of astronomy or navigation is expressly excluded by the Bill.

ANOTHER DRAFT SPECIAL REPORT, proposed by Mr. Pirie, brought up and read the first time as follows:—

1. That the Committee have met and considered the said Bill, and have examined numerous Witnesses, records and papers, and have directed the said Bill to be reported to the House with amendmentS.

(And the Committee have directed the Minutes of Evidence with an Appendix to be laid before the House.)

2. And the Committee find that the object proposed to be accomplished by the Bill is to promote the earlier and more extended use and enjoyment of daylight during certain months, viz., from April to September in each year. And that such object is desirable and would benefit large classes of the

SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE DAYLIGHT SAVING BILL. 1X

community, and that almost all the evidence submitted to the Committee agrees with and supports this view, though differing as to the mode of accomplishing it.

3. The paramount advantage the Committee find to be the use of daylight instead of artificial light during the months named.

The effect of the proposals of the Bill during the months named would be :—
(1) To shift the usual hours of work and leisure nearer to sunrise and further from sunset.
(2) To promote the greater use of daylight for recreative purposes of all kinds.
(3) To lessen the use of licensed houses.
(4) To facilitate the drilling and marksmanship of territorial forces.

(5) To benefit the general health and welfare of all such classes of the community as could avail themselves of the proposals.

And the Committee find that some classes of workers, such as agriculturists, gardeners, sailors and others whose work is already regulated by daylight, and miners and others whose work is regulated by shifts or other such conditions, would remain unaffected and unprejudiced by the proposals in the Bill if passed into law.

4. The Committee have invited objections to the proposals contained in the Bill, and such as have been made appear in the Evidence, and may be summarised as follows:–

(A) Objections to the Bill altogether or (B) to particular proposals in it.
(A) As to objections that the Bill is unnecessary or undesirable.
On these the Committee agree that the objects proposed cannot be attained without legislation.

And that a single Act affecting the measurement of time is better than an Act affecting all the times prescribed by various Statutes, by laws and other rules for the conduct of civil business.

And that the interference with European traffic is inappreciable compared with the general benefit to the nation at large, and easily capable of being overcome.

And that the interference with American business can be obviated without serious difficulty by the adherence of the markets affected to their present hours, and, when necessary, by foregoing the advantages of the Bill.

And that the various interests affected could without much initial difficulty adapt themselves to. the alteration.

(B) As to objections to the particular proposals, viz.:—That the creation of four short hours of 40 minutes in April and four long hours of 80 minutes in September would occasion undue public inconvenience and too much resulting interference with the ordinary measurement of time in those months by clocks and watches. The Committee considered these objections and various proposals for obviating or minimising the admitted difficulties, such as reducing the alterations either to—

(1) Three short hours of 30 minutes each and three long hours of 90 minutes; or
(2) Two short hours of 30 minutes each and two long hours of 90 minutes each; or

(3) A single alteration by omitting one hour on the last Sunday in April and inserting an additional hour in the first Sunday in September; or

(4) Only one alteration once for all by omitting one hour on the last Sunday in April, and so adopting Mid-European time for all civic purposes in Great Britain but not in Ireland.

5. The Committee agree that this last proposal is eminently undesirable, and for the sake of unanimity and simplicity and general public convenience, the Committee find that the two short hours of 30 minutes each and two long hours of 90 minutes each is the best mode of attaining the object of the Bill.

6. And the Committee find that the most convenient hours to change in April are the hours between two and three in the mornings of the first two Sundays in that month, and that the most convenient way of changing is to make the hours from two to three on those mornings short hours, consisting of 30 minutes only, and that the most convenient way of changing in September is to make the hours between two and three in the mornings of the last two Sundays in that month long hours, consisting of 90 minutes each.

And the Committee amended the Bill accordingly.

7. And the Committee find there is no serious practical difficulty in adjusting clocks and watches to these seasonal changes.

Interference with Greenwich mean time for the purposes of astronomy or navigation is expressly excluded by the Bill.

* 8. The Committee are of opinion that the Act should not come into force until the expiration of one full year after its passing.

ANOTHER DRAFT SPECIAL REPORT, proposed by Mr. Holt, brought up and read the first time as follows:—

1. That the Committee have met and considered the said Bill, and have examined numerous Witnesses, records and papers.

2. The Committee find that the object proposed to be accomplished by the Bill is to promote the earlier use of daylight during certain months, viz., from April to September in each year. While this object, if attained, would benefit certain large classes of the community, the Committee find that during the months of June and July it would confer no benefit on the inhabitants of the northern parts of the country, where there is already ample daylight, and that the additional daylight gained in the evening could not be utilised by children and young persons without great risk of diminishing the period allotted to them for sleep.

3. The alteration proposed in the Bill would seriously disorganise the postal connections with the Continent of Europe during the summer months, and, unless the nominal hours of work were altered, would most injuriously affect all traders carrying on business by telegraph with America.

4. For scientific purposes and in consideration of our relations with foreign countries it is highly undesirable to introduce that uncertainty in the enumeration of time which must result from the alterations proposed in the Bill.

5. The advantages to be derived from the operation of the proposals in the Bill entirely depend on the maintenance of the present nominal hours of work, recreation, meals, rest, &c.

The suggestion that persons who are injuriously affected by the Bill can protect themselves by altering their nominal hours merely throws the onus of an alteration in nominal hours from those who are dissatisfied with existing arrangements on to those who are satisfied with them.

6. The Committee are of opinion that, so far as any section of the community is free to fix its hours of work, recreation, meals, &c., without reference to others, there is no need of legislation to enable them to fix earlier hours: so far as these hours are chosen with a view to uniformity, they must depend on the wishes of those to whom the choice of one hour rather than another is of the greatest importance, and no legislation altering the name of an hour will affect the actual hour chosen.

7. So far as the adoption of earlier hours of work is prevented by the Factory Acts or other similar legislation, the Committee consider that power might be given to the Home Office to authorise an earlier start and ending of work during summer months in such cases as they may think desirable.

8. In view of these considerations the Committee are of opinion that the scheme is both unnecessary and undesirable, and they have decided in consequence to report the Bill without amendment to the House.

Motion made and Question proposed,—That the Draft Special Report proposed by the Chairman be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.—(Mr. Robert Pearce.)

Amendment proposed,—To leave out the words “the Chairman ” and insert the words “Mr. Holt’—(Mr. Holt)—instead thereof.

Question put, -That the words “the Chairman ” stand part of the question.
The Committee divided.

Ayes, 3. Noes, 1.

Mr. Robert Pearce. Mr. Holt.
Colonel Philipps.
Mr. Thomas Frederick Richards.

Main question put, and agreed to.

Further consideration of Draft Special Report postponed.

DAYLIGHT SAVING BILL.

Clause 1.

An Amendment proposed in page 1, line 2, to leave out the words “first four ’’ and insert the words “last two *—(Mr. Robert Pearce)—instead thereof.

Question, That the words “first four ’’ stand part of the Clause,—put, and negatived.
Amendment proposed to proposed amendment to leave out the word “two.”—(Mr. Holt.)
Question put,-That the word “two "stand part of the proposed amendment.

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